Top 10 signs the USA is becomming a police state

[Ohiosweetheart]

Originally Posted by Zap

@Ohio and BSGuy: Do you honestly believe everything that GWB tells you? Do you really believe that the reason they crashed planes into the WTC is simply because "they hate freedom"? Do you both think that it is THAT simple?

did I say that? Good lord Zap, chill out. If you've read ANY of my posts, you'd know better... Geezes I didn't even get a chance to reply to your post #235 before being jumped on me three minutes later with post #236. And now I won't even bother.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by Ohiosweetheart

did I say that? Good lord Zap, chill out. If you've read ANY of my posts, you'd know better... Geezes I didn't even get a chance to reply to your post #235 before being jumped on me three minutes later with post #236. And now I won't even bother.

I'm quite chilled out, Ohio.

I stated that I don't agree with the terrorists' actions and that I also don't believe that the reason that they are angry with the west is as simple as the US government puts it... "They hate our freedom and our way of life".
You said that you couldn't agree with that.

Nobody is jumping on you at all. I just really wondered if you and/or BSGuy actually think their actions could be explained away so simply.

It seems like you are the one who needs to chill out here. You're telling me to chill out, questioning whether or not I've read "ANY" of your posts. All I did was pose some questions.

[Ohiosweetheart]

Originally Posted by Zap

I'm quite chilled out, Ohio.

I stated that I don't agree with the terrorists' actions and that I also don't believe that the reason that they are angry with the west is as simple as the US government puts it... "They hate our freedom and our way of life".
You said that you couldn't agree with that.

Nobody is jumping on you at all. I just really wondered if you and/or BSGuy actually think their actions could be explained away so simply.

It seems like you are the one who needs to chill out here. You're telling me to chill out, questioning whether or not I've read "ANY" of your posts. All I did was pose some questions.

excuse me... but if you go back and read my post again, you'll realize that what you quoted above is NOT what I was disagreeing with.

[BamaStangGuy]

I'm still sitting here wondering why he thinks I believe everything Bush tells me.

[Ohiosweetheart]

I've certainly never said I did. Quite the contrary, in fact

[BamaStangGuy]

*Shrugs*

[Zap]

Originally Posted by BamaStangGuy

I'm still sitting here wondering why he thinks I believe everything Bush tells me.

You believe in the war in Iraq, even though Bush has been proven a liar to get there.
You believe Bush's official story about what happened at the WTC on 9/11, even though there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary and Bush did not allow an independant investigation into the matter.
You believe Bush when he tells you he doesn't spy on innocent people.

It sounds to me like you believe a lot of what he tells you.

And, you appear to be misinformed about something too...

Sourced
"I'm American and I'm unpleased with the fact that your country has not taken a tougher stance on the people that attacked us on 9/11 and the countries that continue to defy the United Nations like Iraq and Iran did."

The US is pulling out of Afghanistan, while Canada is taking over operations there. Your own president is quoted as saying that he doesn't care much about where Bin Laden is, while we send more and more of our troops there. It sounds to me like Canada is taking a tougher stance on the people who attacked you on 9/11 than the US is. You guys seem much more interested, these days, in Iran and Iraq.
What about the guys Bush claims killed 3000 people on 9/11? Why isn't he interested in getting him?

So, Canada IS taking a tougher stance on the people that attacked you on 9/11.

We do agree, though, that Canada should take a tougher stance against countries that defy the UN. ALL COUNTRIES that defy the UN.
If the UN falls and there is nothing equal or better to replace it, then all hope is lost for a peaceful planet.

[Ferre]

For those who want to know the history of how the US has been under-mining the UN and have fueled the hatred in the middle east, read how they used their veto power to block 29 seperate cases of sanctions against Israel, untill this day, Israel ignores another 66 resolutions.

So why isn't the US just as firm with Israel as they were with Iraq?

Please explain this.

http://www.washington-report.org/bac...93/9303040.htm

Are Israelis "better humans" than Iraqi people? Do Israelis have the right to ignore UN resolutions? <-- That question is already answered by history isn't it?

The US is clearly treating the muslim world as 'untermensh' since decades and that's why they hate the US, NOT because "they hate their freedoms", The muslim world doesn't even want their freedoms, they want their OWN freedom.

[John Scott]

If the Muslims have a problem with Isreal maybe they should attack Isreal. The propaganda I hear from Muslim extremists is that America is a county of free sex, fornication and debauchery and Allah demands that Muslims crush the heathen sinners.

You agree with that Ferre? You think Muslims should murder people who have sex out of marriage?

Funny that you should push that line, people most Muslims do not agree with the extremist views that you seem to want to justify.

[John Scott]

You believe Bush's official story about what happened at the WTC on 9/11

I don't know what Bush's story is on the 9/11 attacks. I reach my own conclusions based on a lot of evidence, and that is in line with Gov't findings and common knowledge.

[Ferre]

You said it right John, "propaganda from muslim extremists"

Fact is that the big majority of the muslim world are not extremists, but people who regard extremists just as dangerous as any other extremist and all they want is a normal life just as you and me. When we act as if the opinion from extremists is the opinion of all muslims we make a huge mistake.

Are all Christians fanatics who want to convert the world into Chritianity? Guess not but there are extremists who have that opinion because their book tells them. Same goes for the Arab world, we must stop stereotyping them if we ever want to get some peace on this planet.

In Amsterdam, we live with mulims all around us and when a few fanatics killed Theo van Gogh because of a film he made, the muslim population went out on the streets to show they did not agree with that sort of madness.

The majority of the muslim world wants a peaceful future for their families and kids, just like us, they are not fanatics at all but understand that we all need to find a way to live together.

[Ferre]

If the Muslims have a problem with Isreal maybe they should attack Isreal.

I think that the majority of the muslim world does not want to attack Israel at all, I think that they had some trust in the UN to come to political/diplomatic solutions, but when sanctions get ignored with the support from the US they feel abandoned by the international institutions they had their hopes on.

That's what I think anyway, and I'm not talking about the extremists but about the majority of the muslim world, they are not much different than we are.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by JohnScott

I don't know what Bush's story is on the 9/11 attacks. I reach my own conclusions based on a lot of evidence, and that is in line with Gov't findings and common knowledge.

I think that's the way to handle it.

However, there are many unanswered questions surrounding 9/11 and it would have been nice if there was an independant investigation into what happened.

There are pretty compelling arguements for and against Bush's version of what went down.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by Ferre

You said it right John, "propaganda from muslim extremists"

Fact is that the big majority of the muslim world are not extremists, but people who regard extremists just as dangerous as any other extremist and all they want is a normal life just as you and me. When we act as if the opinion from extremists is the opinion of all muslims we make a huge mistake.

Are all Christians fanatics who want to convert the world into Chritianity? Guess not but there are extremists who have that opinion because their book tells them. Same goes for the Arab world, we must stop stereotyping them if we ever want to get some peace on this planet.

In Amsterdam, we live with mulims all around us and when a few fanatics killed Theo van Gogh because of a film he made, the muslim population went out on the streets to show they did not agree with that sort of madness.

The majority of the muslim world wants a peaceful future for their families and kids, just like us, they are not fanatics at all but understand that we all need to find a way to live together.

Good points Ferre.

I believe that's also why the battle between Israel and Palestine keeps failing.
Every time they get close to peace (even a little bit close), some fanatic with a bomb derails the whole process because people DO NOT separate the idiot with the bomb from the rest of the Palestinians and the posturing starts all over again, setting the peace process back even more. As long as this continues to happen and people use the actions of one person to villify an entire people, peace will never emerge.

The kicker is... There are people who know this and use it for their own gain, while the rest of us keep reading about more deaths by bombing in Israel. More people in the general population need to start calling the people in power on these actions when we see them. We have to stop letting these b@stards get away with painting all Palestinians, Muslims, Jews with the same brush, just because they can gain from it and most of the sheeple buy into it.

[Ferre]

However, there are many unanswered questions surrounding 9/11 and it would have been nice if there was an independant investigation into what happened.

My view too. There are way too many unanswered questions and the 9/11 commission has done a bad job, to say it nicely.