Top 10 signs the USA is becomming a police state

[pnelson]

love that image! hehehe :-)

[Ferre]

To get back on the original subject of this tread, read this article:

Impending Police State in America

[RobS]

sheesh.....

[jumpenjuhosaphat]

I didn't read this entire thread, I got to page 8. I didn't read the article either, but I will, cause this is interesting.

I find it interesting how quickly the conversation went from the topic of the US becoming a police state to 9/11, the war in Iraq, the UN and other world affairs. It's my opinion that that is why we went to war in the first place. We are blinded by these major happenings to the point that we lose sight of what's really going on.

I live in the US, never been anywhere else, so I can say first hand what I see. I see cops baracading the roads to do background checks on innocent citizen's, they call it DUI checkpoints, but if that were the case, why not just give a breathalizer and leave it at that? That's not good enough, because then they say that if they come into contact with any adult that they are required to do a background check. I saw this happen at noon on a major road in a small city. They didn't make a single arrest due to DUI, and my guess is that that wasn't what they were going for in the first place. You wouldn't have seen such a thing 10 years ago. They ticketed anyone who turned off before the baracade, called it obstruction of justice.

I've seen hospitals call Social Services on families that had disagreements with their doctors, I guess your parenting skills are questionable if you speak your mind.

I've seen EMT's poking a man passed out in a wheel chair from heat exhaustion. Instead of placing the sick man on a stretcher, they poked him, telling him the whole time to wake up and move on.

The question is, what is the definition of a police state? In my eyes, it is what the US will be in 10 to 20 years if things continue to go as they have the previous 10 years. The next question is what is freedom? Freedom is the right to move freely without concern about who sees or knows where you are moving to. Freedom is about getting on an airplane without first having to take off your shoes. Freedom is being able to speak my mind without being guilty of dissent. Freedom is having children without being questioned about the validity of your parenting skills. Freedom is the ability to choose who I want to buy my internet service from. Freedom is a right, not a privilege.

Those are some simple freedoms that I have listed, which ones are you willing to give up? They tell us that in order to protect our freedom that we must first sacrifice it. I don't buy that. I believe that there are some sacrifices that need to be made, like taking off my shoes to board a plane, but how does sacrificing my right to move freely effect this nations security? How does my right to bear children effect the security of this nation? How does my right to choose an internet provider effect the security of this nation?

In my mind, the definition of a police state is as follows: A loss of certain freedoms, and in place of those freedoms, policies that restrict my movement and ability to choose. Albeit, living in a police state wouldn't be without some fundamental freedoms: We'll still have the right to choose our religion, and freedom of speech will still remain. But for how long? How many of our freedoms should we be willing to sacrifice? How far will it all go?

When we are told that driving is a privilege, not a right, then something is wrong. Why should I not have the right to operate my vehicle on the roads that my tax dollars paid for? Why is there such word play? You can't lose your rights, but you can lose your privileges? It means the same thing, only it is made clear that driving isn't a freedom, even though paying for the means to drive is a requirement. Don't get me wrong, it is a freedom and a right that should be removed if it is abused, like any other freedom. It's just, if it's a privilege, then who issues that privilege, and what gives them the right?

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with anyone's views. I think it's awesome when people support their governing bodies. I also think that it's important for all people to ensure that those same governments are also in the best interests of the country and it's individuals. For example: When prices for gasoline increase more than 100% in only a few days time, and the corporations that are selling the gas witness profit increases of $10,000,000,000 in one quarter, then something is wrong. When the government does an investigation, it should come back saying that yes, this isn't right, and these companies are now being forced to sell there product for 10% less than cost for such and such time, until the injustice is corrected. Instead, our government saw nothing wrong.

There was a question earlier about if anyone knew any soldiers that fought in Iraq. I don't, but a friend's grandson was killed in Iraq. He fell victim to a bombing and his arm was blown off. His health was good other than the fact that he was missing an arm. While being elevated into a helicopter, the lift line snapped and he fell 30 feet to his death. His family was told initially that he died because of the bombing, and that he died immediately. After doing some poking a prodding, the truth came out as to how he really died, and the fact that it was a miserable suffering death. His wife was awarded $400,000. Two weeks later she had a brand new Cadillac, and had purchased a new car for the father of the child she was 4 months pregnant with. He was proud to fight for the country that he loved so much, but did he agree with the war? No. Do you think that he would have willingly died for something that he didn't agree with? I don't.

That's not to say that I don't agree with the war, I'm not saying that I agree either, I don't think it's important here. I think what's important here is the freedom that we are losing here at home, and I think that the war in Iraq is turning a blind eye to what's really going on at home.

I'm sorry for all of the families that have lost or will lose a loved one in this war. I think that there are soldiers that are fighting a war that they feel is the right thing to do, but I think that there is an equal number of soldiers fighting the same war that don't. They are all heroes, they are putting their lives on the line without questioning the validity of the reasoning behind it.

Anyway, I've spent the past 4 hours on this thread, so I am going to do something else for a while.

Please don't disagree with me, or I will call you names....

[John Scott]

Awesome post. You make some very valid points.

[Taltos]

WOW, this is one beast of a thread! Since it got bumped, I did the opposite of jumpinjahosophat and started at the end and backed up a few pages. So I was reading about the pancake theory of WTC collapse and police state.

Jumpin' you make some interesting points. I like a lot of what you had to say right up to the point where you said:

Freedom is a right, not a privilege.

I'm not sure I agree with that. (So let the name calling begin ) I do feel Freedom is a right. I think our founding fathers thought so too...thus:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

On a side note...reading the whole Declaration of Independence from time to time is a great thing. The wisdom of the words is still inspiring to me!

My concern is that the way you say it sounds like you are "entitled" to it no matter what. Rights have to be defended in the real world. The have to be protected. That idea of entitlement combined with all the PC crap of protecting the idiots from themselves leads to a lot of what you describe. Personally, I think if we just quit encouraging the idiots to be idiots and PROFIT from being idiots, we would be a lot better off. We wouldn't need such an oppressive load of laws to "protect" people. We don't protect most people with most of our laws. We protect a minority of our population that are Darwin awards waiting to happen.

OK...that rant over and on to the next

Ferre...your article from a few months ago on the pancake effect...that is one lost mechanical engineer. She completely neglects momentum in her billiard ball analogy. Obviously someone quickly pointed this out to her as she throws it in at the end as an appendix but never ties it in to her calculations. According to her own "simplification" of conservation of momentum...her 2nd billiard ball no longer starts from rest as her 89 seconds to fall table assumes. 89 seconds is only true if every piece starts from rest. Conservation of Momentum and Energy dictate that is not what will happen. Her own calculations that she never ties in say the second ball along with the first ball will start at about 22 ft/sec and accellerate from there at 32.2 ft/sec squared. After just a few iterations of that you have an enormous amount of momentum and kinetic energy.

I am not sure who I believe on exactly what happened that day but that particular article is very badly flawed. I have an engineering degree and do know static and dynamic physics. It's been a while but for an associate professor of mechanical engineering, she misses a lot. I only mention the most blatant examples here.

Very interesting and thought provoking thread!!!!!

[Lakeman]

The most amazing thing about the police state we live in is that, every bit of it, from the top to the bottom, every corrupt judge, cop, politician, etc. will immediately go away on the day someone from the other party gets elected as president.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by Lakeman

The most amazing thing about the police state we live in is that, every bit of it, from the top to the bottom, every corrupt judge, cop, politician, etc. will immediately go away on the day someone from the other party gets elected as president.

Yeah, right, they'll all vanish into thin air.

[Dustin07]

the other party

which party are you referring too?

[jumpenjuhosaphat]

You must be talking about the kegger, that party'll be over once the beers all gone...

[G10]

Originally Posted by Lakeman

The most amazing thing about the police state we live in is that, every bit of it, from the top to the bottom, every corrupt judge, cop, politician, etc. will immediately go away on the day someone from the other party gets elected as president.

This is a joke comment right

[Ferre]

The Empire Turns Its Guns On The Citizenry

No police state, all imagination, nothing to see here folks, move on, move on...

[kristeejo]

Originally Posted by jumpenjuhosaphat

I didn't read this entire thread, I got to page 8. I didn't read the article either, but I will, cause this is interesting.

I find it interesting how quickly the conversation went from the topic of the US becoming a police state to 9/11, the war in Iraq, the UN and other world affairs. It's my opinion that that is why we went to war in the first place. We are blinded by these major happenings to the point that we lose sight of what's really going on.

I live in the US, never been anywhere else, so I can say first hand what I see. I see cops baracading the roads to do background checks on innocent citizen's, they call it DUI checkpoints, but if that were the case, why not just give a breathalizer and leave it at that? That's not good enough, because then they say that if they come into contact with any adult that they are required to do a background check. I saw this happen at noon on a major road in a small city. They didn't make a single arrest due to DUI, and my guess is that that wasn't what they were going for in the first place. You wouldn't have seen such a thing 10 years ago. They ticketed anyone who turned off before the baracade, called it obstruction of justice.

I've seen hospitals call Social Services on families that had disagreements with their doctors, I guess your parenting skills are questionable if you speak your mind.

I've seen EMT's poking a man passed out in a wheel chair from heat exhaustion. Instead of placing the sick man on a stretcher, they poked him, telling him the whole time to wake up and move on.

The question is, what is the definition of a police state? In my eyes, it is what the US will be in 10 to 20 years if things continue to go as they have the previous 10 years. The next question is what is freedom? Freedom is the right to move freely without concern about who sees or knows where you are moving to. Freedom is about getting on an airplane without first having to take off your shoes. Freedom is being able to speak my mind without being guilty of dissent. Freedom is having children without being questioned about the validity of your parenting skills. Freedom is the ability to choose who I want to buy my internet service from. Freedom is a right, not a privilege.

Those are some simple freedoms that I have listed, which ones are you willing to give up? They tell us that in order to protect our freedom that we must first sacrifice it. I don't buy that. I believe that there are some sacrifices that need to be made, like taking off my shoes to board a plane, but how does sacrificing my right to move freely effect this nations security? How does my right to bear children effect the security of this nation? How does my right to choose an internet provider effect the security of this nation?

In my mind, the definition of a police state is as follows: A loss of certain freedoms, and in place of those freedoms, policies that restrict my movement and ability to choose. Albeit, living in a police state wouldn't be without some fundamental freedoms: We'll still have the right to choose our religion, and freedom of speech will still remain. But for how long? How many of our freedoms should we be willing to sacrifice? How far will it all go?

When we are told that driving is a privilege, not a right, then something is wrong. Why should I not have the right to operate my vehicle on the roads that my tax dollars paid for? Why is there such word play? You can't lose your rights, but you can lose your privileges? It means the same thing, only it is made clear that driving isn't a freedom, even though paying for the means to drive is a requirement. Don't get me wrong, it is a freedom and a right that should be removed if it is abused, like any other freedom. It's just, if it's a privilege, then who issues that privilege, and what gives them the right?

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with anyone's views. I think it's awesome when people support their governing bodies. I also think that it's important for all people to ensure that those same governments are also in the best interests of the country and it's individuals. For example: When prices for gasoline increase more than 100% in only a few days time, and the corporations that are selling the gas witness profit increases of $10,000,000,000 in one quarter, then something is wrong. When the government does an investigation, it should come back saying that yes, this isn't right, and these companies are now being forced to sell there product for 10% less than cost for such and such time, until the injustice is corrected. Instead, our government saw nothing wrong.

There was a question earlier about if anyone knew any soldiers that fought in Iraq. I don't, but a friend's grandson was killed in Iraq. He fell victim to a bombing and his arm was blown off. His health was good other than the fact that he was missing an arm. While being elevated into a helicopter, the lift line snapped and he fell 30 feet to his death. His family was told initially that he died because of the bombing, and that he died immediately. After doing some poking a prodding, the truth came out as to how he really died, and the fact that it was a miserable suffering death. His wife was awarded $400,000. Two weeks later she had a brand new Cadillac, and had purchased a new car for the father of the child she was 4 months pregnant with. He was proud to fight for the country that he loved so much, but did he agree with the war? No. Do you think that he would have willingly died for something that he didn't agree with? I don't.

That's not to say that I don't agree with the war, I'm not saying that I agree either, I don't think it's important here. I think what's important here is the freedom that we are losing here at home, and I think that the war in Iraq is turning a blind eye to what's really going on at home.

I'm sorry for all of the families that have lost or will lose a loved one in this war. I think that there are soldiers that are fighting a war that they feel is the right thing to do, but I think that there is an equal number of soldiers fighting the same war that don't. They are all heroes, they are putting their lives on the line without questioning the validity of the reasoning behind it.

Anyway, I've spent the past 4 hours on this thread, so I am going to do something else for a while.

Please don't disagree with me, or I will call you names....

I don't think I've read such a sincere post in a very long time. You need to post more often!

[jumpenjuhosaphat]

Wow, thanks Kristeejo for the kind words.

[littleFella]

I never thought I'd live long enough to have a chance to agree with a Russian politician:

"People are always teaching us democracy but the people who teach us democracy don't want to learn it themselves," he said.

[zcoder]

Europe, even though it is supose to be made up of many countrys
who are to be their own country are really under the same Europol, the police and intelligence arm of the European Union.

And this intelligence agency also infringes on rights of it's people

Police to spy on all emails
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/polit...730091,00.html

I have alot more things I can show on european sectret intelligence agency's
actions that are very questionable.

Zcoder....