Decline of Labor Unions

[South]

This is so positive. Unions are the scurge of the American workforce and a large part of the reason America manufactures inferior products.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journal...e/16566819.htm

I'll be happy to see that last union lock the doors and go home.

[cldnails]

At one time in our history there was a need for labor unions, however I think that time has come and gone. To blame unions on our inferior products, that's just silly, what would you consider an 'inferior' product?

[South]

Originally Posted by cldnails

At one time in our history there was a need for labor unions, however I think that time has come and gone. To blame unions on our inferior products, that's just silly, what would you consider an 'inferior' product?

Automobiles primarily, but other things as well. I don't think that represents America, just the negetive effect of unions. We have little of it here, but there is some labor influence along our coast.

[Thalasar]

Unions aren't the problem - Do they make the design decisions? Nope. Ford is a great example - it's controlled by the Ford family because of the way the company was set up. As result instead the best CEO for the company you get Bill Ford who has NO idea how a car is put together. But you blame the unions. Considering that unions are something like 8% of the workforce, I doubt very much they are to "blame" for the huge missteps by management of various companies.

[John Scott]

Unions caused the cost of production to go up so high that America could no longer compete. Now that Ford and GM outsource much of the production to Canada, we can compete again, but it really isn't "made in America" anymore.

[Thalasar]

Well who "forced" management to agree to the higher labor cost? Ford just posted the worst loss in it history as company. And that the fault of unions? Nope otherwise it would have happened decades ago.

[cldnails]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Unions caused the cost of production to go up so high that America could no longer compete. Now that Ford and GM outsource much of the production to Canada, we can compete again, but it really isn't "made in America" anymore.

The same could be applied to 'imports'. Toyota has a manufacturing plant 30 mins from where I live, is that "made in America"?

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by cldnails

The same could be applied to 'imports'. Toyota has a manufacturing plant 30 mins from where I live, is that "made in America"?

I doubt it. Most of Toyota is made in Korea and Mexico, no?

[littleFella]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Unions caused the cost of production to go up so high that America could no longer compete. Now that Ford and GM outsource much of the production to Canada, we can compete again, but it really isn't "made in America" anymore.

Do you think they never heard about trade unions in Canada? Somehow the manufacturing quality is top of the line here, with trade unions, high CDN $ and "liberal infestation".

I'm not sure it's really about Trade Unions.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Unions caused the cost of production to go up so high that America could no longer compete. Now that Ford and GM outsource much of the production to Canada, we can compete again, but it really isn't "made in America" anymore.

Funny that. Unions is, according to most concervatives, a communist idea. Weird that Communist China which is one huge union doesn't have much problems to compete on the world market.

Oh, and if you think that Chinese people have a low (material) standard of living, go there and see for yourself, I did, and they don't have a low standard of living at all, they own cars, go out to restaurants, buy computers, houses, all the same stuff that we do in the west. The only thing that they do not have is freedom of speech, which is a disgrace in my eyes, but when it comes down to their 'standard of living' in the material sense they do just as well as most western countries. The enormous growth of the internet down there only shows one aspect of that fact.

I have a friend who has a business down there, He is Chinese and was borne and grew up in America, after having his own business in America for a couple of years he moved to China. I asked him why he could do that and his answer was fairly simple, according to him he has a better quality of life down there. Less of a police state. He told me that America is more 'free' on paper, but practically, he feels a lot more free in China, which is less free on paper.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by littleFella

Do you think they never heard about trade unions in Canada? Somehow the manufacturing quality is top of the line here, with trade unions, high CDN $ and "liberal infestation".

I'm not sure it's really about Trade Unions.

LOL.

Then why do you think they are outsourcing the work to Mexico? One reason, and one reason only: COST.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Funny that. Unions is, according to most concervatives, a communist idea. Weird that Communist China which is one huge union doesn't have much problems to compete on the world market.

Oh, and if you think that Chinese people have a low (material) standard of living, go there and see for yourself, I did, and they don't have a low standard of living at all, they own cars, go out to restaurants, buy computers, houses, all the same stuff that we do in the west. The only thing that they do not have is freedom of speech, which is a disgrace in my eyes, but when it comes down to their 'standard of living' in the material sense they do just as well as most western countries. The enormous growth of the internet down there only shows one aspect of that fact.

I have a friend who has a business down there, He is Chinese and was borne and grew up in America, after having his own business in America for a couple of years he moved to China. I asked him why he could do that and his answer was fairly simple, according to him he has a better quality of life down there. Less of a police state. He told me that America is more 'free' on paper, but practically, he feels a lot more free in China, which is less free on paper.

Ferre, China is cheap. That is common knowledge. It's due to the exchange rate. I have a friend who imports clothes from China. She said that the shirts cost less to have made in China than she could make herself in the US. The material itself costs more in the US than a completed garment.

[zcoder]

Ferre,
Your imaginary friend fit the story good, and made the point work just
fine. But I am not buying that one, it fits to easy.

Nice try though, could have used you in scool to help me on story
writting. so where was you back then, when I need you?

Zcoder....

[John Scott]

$7,600 - China
$43,500 - US.

Yep, they are poor.

[littleFella]

What's got Mexico to do with anything?
My point is that trade unions hardly have anything to do with quality of manufacture.
By comparison; Volkswagen, manufactured in Mexico for the North American market, has one of the highest defect rates. Toyota and Honda (manufactured in the US and Canada, respectively) some of the lowest.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by littleFella

What's got Mexico to do with anything?
My point is that trade unions hardly have anything to do with quality of manufacture.
By comparison; Volkswagen, manufactured in Mexico for the North American market, has one of the highest defect rates. Toyota and Honda (manufactured in the US and Canada, respectively) some of the lowest.

You socialist twat.

Trade unions cost money. If you had ever run a business in your life you would understand that if employees eat up all the budget, then there is little left over for the product, which then suffers in quality.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by zcoder

Ferre,
Your imaginary friend fit the story good, and made the point work just
f