CNN & Atheists

jg_v7n · 02-06-2007, 03:16 PM

This is really worth watching if you have an interest in Religious discrimination:

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...2-b1b8d262d98e

Really quite stunning, (no Atheists btw in a debate about Atheists!!) behind a banner that says "Why do Atheists inspire so much hatred?" - Imagine a debate behind a banner that read "Why do Jews inspire so much hatred?".

Opening line of the debate "What does an atheist believe? Nothing."

And ends with a vague criticism of Europe for being secular and therefore becoming a "slum" full of "weak", "intolerant" Atheists.

A truly stunningly ignorant "News" item.

**G10** · 02-06-2007, 04:05 PM

This all happened in the US right?

My goodness, don't take this the wrong way but you never really hear of this happening in the UK and it seems that there are some pretty backward people/views in certain areas over there.

Quote:

That's the one reason our country has not become like Europe because we have strong Christians and because atheists are not strong. And I think that's a good thing.

And that's why there are still a fair few racist groups over there also

Welcome to the land of the free eh!

ewomack · 02-06-2007, 05:49 PM

That was... interesting. Part 1 was okay, but that panel in Part 2 was ridiculous. Who were those people on the panel and what qualifications did they have to be there? Apart from being misinformed mouth-offs, they didn't really say. It looks like they tried the rabble rousing Jerry Springer approach to the topic: get three people who disagree with the topic at hand and have them go at it. I was expecting chair throwing at some point. Bad sensationalist journalism, but what else do you expect from CNN? In the end, I'm surprised that CNN allowed the "A" word on their airwaves. Progress?

IslaScotts · 02-07-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G10

This all happened in the US right?

My goodness, don't take this the wrong way but you never really hear of this happening in the UK and it seems that there are some pretty backward people/views in certain areas over there.

And that's why there are still a fair few racist groups over there also

Welcome to the land of the free eh!

Certain areas??? It is all over the freaking place. Most is supported by our politicians. Hatred is a very strong force here in America, I have to admit for a large chunk of my life.... I had a lot of hatred. Its part of the culture and very hard to lift from people's hearts.

Ferre · 02-07-2007, 02:48 AM

It's just another symptom of a sick society. Reason, in my view, why most Americans do not 'feel' that they are living in a totally messed up reality is because of the simple fact that they don't know any better, for them it's all normal.

You might want to know about the meaning of the words 'comfort zone'.

ewomack · 02-07-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

It's just another symptom of a sick society. Reason, in my view, why most Americans do not 'feel' that they are living in a totally messed up reality is because of the simple fact that they don't know any better, for them it's all normal.

You might want to know about the meaning of the words 'comfort zone'.

I think many Americans are aware of it (I have many friends who are, and we have a little "support group") but these groups don't really have a voice. The half-conservative half-liberal media reinforces lifestyle stereotypes and many people take those at unquestioning face value. Buying or consuming has become the status quo means of communication. Having a party? Buy something! You like someone? Buy them something! It's October 9th? Buy something! We seem to have trouble enjoying ourselves without spending money. And the pleasures of buying things drills deep into our subconscious because when we were young we were rewarded with stuff. Or we were told to "take your pick of anything in the toy department." That was real fun and it stuck. But many people don't get a balance between pleasure from buying and pleasure from not buying. And buying takes on an affectionate function. Try going to a typical birthday party in America without bringing a present. You find real quick that your presence is not presents enough. In essence, you didn't buy something = you don't care or you're uncaring. You just showed up. Not enough.

jg_v7n · 02-08-2007, 09:55 AM

Belatedly they address the balance - this should be good

http://richarddawkins.net/event,123,CNN

Ferre · 02-08-2007, 06:32 PM

Jeezz.

That Debbie Schlussel woman who was on that CNN panel is a total fruitcake. On her blog, Schlussel goes on to say that Atheists are brainwashed, future Muslim extremists, and that they will go on "..helping the country fall further in its fight against the creep of Islamic imposition on America".

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archi...theists_a.html

jg_v7n · 02-09-2007, 06:26 AM

My God she is screwed up, this is funny (Given the first post in this thread): "First of all, the video of that segment appears nowhere on the net. Believe me, if it did, I'd link to it."

She also repeats the nonsense that Atheists "don't believe anything": "If you don't believe in anything." - I'd just like to point out that Atheists believe in all the same things as theists, they just miss out the "Faith" part - the belief in something without evidence. They replace that with an inquisitive and open mind, a desire for understanding, questioning and investigation (in terms of the ultimate questions that is), and an acceptance that not all questions can be answered and possibly never will be.

I'm sorry but she is an idiot, hate filled war monger. Just look at the video she has on her homepage; "awesome", she calls watching American troops killing Iraqis and screaming: "Hell Yeah, bitches, see your ass in Hell!" And claims that there are no "unpalatable elements". (You don't actually see anyone die but thats clearly the assumption).

Terrible, terrible woman.

And just to prove just how much CNN are fiercely fighting for quality balanced news coverage they bumped the Atheist viewpoint section for Anna Nicole death "coverage".

jg_v7n · 02-09-2007, 07:11 AM

...I want to add something else about her views about Europe, and why she misunderstands (completely) the situation. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that she hadn't even been to Europe, or at least studied its politics and social progress with any sort of open-mindedness.

Europe has become increasingly secular, this is for some very good reasons. In general people have decided that they want to live as they see fit, they want to live life as they feel is fitting to the world around them as they see it. They see and understand that, people are different and varied, life isn't black and white as portrayed in religious "Bibles".

Some people are Gay, some what to have sex before marriage, some want to live together before marriage, some want children outside marriage, some Gay people want to get married (or whatever your chosen secular noun is for such a union). Most people don't want to "bow" or be subservient to a "higher power", most people don't want to ask or seek for forgiveness from a "God". They want to find these things inside themselves and from those who's their actions have affected. They don't want to be "lead" or dictated to by an old man who lives in a large church in The Vatican, or even younger men who live in their local churches. Why should these people dictate to them how they live their lives?

They want to be comfortable with themselves, with their own beliefs, if these happen to coincide with a particular religion, then fine. But in general they don't, and increasingly they see religion as irrelevant to their lives and the world that they see, feel and experience everyday.

Some of these things have been taken as law, equal rights for Gays, Gay civil partnerships for example and a continued separation of church and state. The UK for example has not granted Catholic adoption agencies their request for "different treatment", they must legally be obligated by exactly the same rules as everyone else, and rightly to.

All of which sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Where Ms. Schlussel gets it totally wrong (apart from misunderstanding the above) is that a few Muslims (where exploitation has taken place) have exploited the new more open, more tolerant attitude with extreme view to make it appear as though they are forcing the agenda. This of course is absolutely wrong. The minority who perpetrate these extreme views simply make it appear as though the secular tolerance is regressing, but this is really just a fight to hold on to the status-quo as has been achieved. It certainly isn't as she portrays the lack of an opposing viewpoint (religion) to hold off "the advance" of Islam.

She seems to think that the only "defense" to extreme Islam is extreme Christianity.

She is part of the problem - not part of the solution.

zcoder · 02-09-2007, 07:36 AM

What would you say is the right defense to extreme Islam???
I would like to hear what a Atheist would do?

Zcoder....

jg_v7n · 02-09-2007, 01:41 PM

Probably the solutions needs to come from inside the Islamic community itself.

I don't know how you would go about achieving this, other than engaging with the community on a political, personal, respectable and humane level.

I do know that Bombing Islamic countries won't work.

ewomack · 02-09-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zcoder

What would you say is the right defense to extreme Islam???
I would like to hear what a Atheist would do?

Zcoder....

What does atheism have to do with defending against extremist Islam? That would be a political issue, not one of faith or belief. Governments would handle that.

I don't understand why you asked "what would a [sic] Atheist do?" And I don't see the relevance.

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 02:42 PM

Hehhe, funny thing is that both muslims and Christians believe in the same basic scriptures, the only difference is the interpretation and some re-writing that has been done to those scriptures in past to suit human interests of gaining power over the minds of the masses.

For me, there's not much difference between muslims or Christians. For me, they are all missing something to make them face reality as it is.

On the question what atheists would do about the 'religious extremist' problem, when I was a kid I just hoped that they would all kill eachother, I believed that humanity could finally start to develope once the desease that makes it rot from the inside was removed.

I grew older, and came to realize that this rot can not be cured and that they will destroy our planet some day, maybe even sooner than most of them realize, but then again, they have a hard time facing reality anyway, if not totally impossible for them.

zcoder · 02-09-2007, 03:15 PM

Go to afghanistan, look up the taliban and
while you are engaging with the community on a political, personal,
respectable and humane level, give me a report of your health at
that time on a daily base's.

Zcoder....

ewomack · 02-09-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zcoder

Go to afghanistan, look up the taliban and
while you are engaging with the community on a political, personal,
respectable and humane level, give me a report of your health at
that time on a daily base's.

Zcoder....

I'm not sure I understand your point here.

Yes, the Taliban are a nasty lot. No, they probably would not respond well to diplomacy. I agree. And... ?!?!? Where are you going with this?

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zcoder

Go to afghanistan, look up the taliban and
while you are engaging with the community on a political, personal,
respectable and humane level, give me a report of your health at
that time on a daily base's.

Zcoder....

Dude, me thinks a brief history of the Taliban is in order here.

Somehow, it seems, that your government has had no problems whatsoever to deal with the Taliban on a political, personal, respectable and humane level. In fact it was your government who has funded them in the first place, who has supported them to gain power in Afghanistan and when they had the power, giving them millions of US tax money to destroy the opium fields. All on a political, personal, respectable and humane level.

In fact, before the US invaded Afghanistan, to 'find' Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban who was in charge of the country, declared that they would hand over Osama to the USA the minute that the USA delivered them prove that Osama was involved in the 9/11 attack, which BUsh rejected.

Funny thing is that the US never showed anyone this 'prove' untill this very day, instead they invaded Afghanistan, and forgot about Osama.

Another funny thing is that people seem to have a very short memory span, or are just plain ignorant.