Evolution (again)

jg_v7n · 02-08-2007, 06:22 AM

Evolution/ Creationism, whatever - its terrible that the quest for knowledge and understanding should come under such vicious attack that the guardians of all our histories fear for the safety of these priceless artifacts:

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/sci...ref=rss_latest

I wish people would just consider and think (just for a moment) about what is put before their eyes instead of out-of-hand dismissing it as "incompatible" with a system of faith.

zcoder · 02-09-2007, 08:51 AM

But you can't have it both ways. on one hand the silly popular evangelical Christian group does not want that type of belive system, Yet on the other
hand, you want them to belive in your creation system.

Both sides should not be forcing anything on others. period.

Zcoder....

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 08:55 AM

Dude, I think you don't really understand the difference between science and fiction.

Creationism = Believe system, based on fairy tales
Evolution = Science, based on facts.

Bestmiler · 02-09-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

Dude, I think you don't really understand the difference between science and fiction.

Creationism = Believe system, based on fairy tales
Evolution = Science, based on facts.

Based on fairy tales??? Its called based on the Bible.

zcoder · 02-09-2007, 09:04 AM

Na, you did not understand that these religions:
- Creationism
- Evolution
- Christian
- Islam
- Budiasm
- Santa

And many more, should never push their ideas onto others.
I don't care if the guy down the road from me prays to Buda
and I don't care if the lady acoss town prays to no god.
As long as they don't stop me from praying to what ever I deem
to belive in.

Zcoder....

Bestmiler · 02-09-2007, 09:06 AM

I agree. I believe in creationism and I don't force to people to believe in it (it's up to you if you do) but I believe that evolution is absurd and I'm not afraid of saying that.

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestmiler

Based on fairy tales??? Its called based on the Bible.

What I said. based on fairy tales. The scientific 'value' of the bible is as much as the scientific value of Harry Potter.

zcoder · 02-09-2007, 09:15 AM

I belive that Evolution and Creationism are one in the same.
as we can all see, that the universe is fully active in making
stars and stars dieing, and that life else where is high.

And all of this was created by what???
I belive their is a creator of the whole realm we know as the
universe. But I don't push my ideas onto people. couse I maybe
wrong in the end.

Zcoder....

jg_v7n · 02-09-2007, 01:33 PM

Huh, my god what a dumb argument.

The key here is "Education", if you study the options is becomes fiercely apparent that one theory holds one huge advantage other all the others.

There are probably ten thousand different "creation" stories from different parts of the world from different times.

Evolution stands out because it has masses and massed of evidence to back it up. Logical, scientific investigation highlights evolution as being at the very root of how (why) we are here. It is impossible to make any sort of investigation into other theories because simply there is nothing to investigate.

Evolutionary "theory" when studied is an accurate theory that represents what we see in real life. Evolutionary theory describes factual observable evolution. This is in exactly the same way that Mathematical theory accurately represents practical Mathematics. "The sum of two numbers is equal to those to numbers added together" - this is theory - and as if you need a practical example 2+2=4.

Not all maths is explained, there are plenty of problems to solve, but no one accuses mathematical "theory" of being "wrong" or just one of many "options" becasue of these "holes". Unfortunately this is exactly the ridiculous argument that you are trying to make here.

I strongly suggest that you read a decent book about evolution.

ewomack · 02-09-2007, 02:15 PM

Ditto.

And keep in mind that just because you believe in a creator, doesn't mean there is one. The most any of us can say with any certainty on that subject is "I don't know." That goes for believers and non-believers.

Evolution, though, has a series of robust tests, experiments, observations, artifacts, and research behind it. It, like the Big Bang, is more than a theory. Direct evidence exists for it. No direct evidence exists for "God made evolution happen" nor "God created the universe." You can, of course, believe it all you want. And it might turn out true. But, though a huge swarry of believers exists, no evidence exists for God or creationism. That could change. New discoveries could also change evolutionary theory. That's what science is based on: discovery and observation. Notice that religion does not change based on observation and discovery, but drives forward with emotion and creed only. Imagine what your life would be like if you used that same method on things in your everyday life: "I believe that the air will carry me across the chasm." Of course you wouldn't believe this, because evidence has shown that air doesn't carry people (without speed and lift).

Science and religion are very different animals.

**South** · 02-09-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

What I said. based on fairy tales. The scientific 'value' of the bible is as much as the scientific value of Harry Potter.

You can't imagine how offensive that is.

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South

You can't imagine how offensive that is.

Maybe the same way as you can't imagine how offending it is to live under the rules of religious nutters who dominate this world with their insane ideas of what's 'good for others', and to be forced to listen to their crap all day long.

**South** · 02-09-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

Maybe the same way as you can't imagine how offending it is to live under the rules of religious nutters who dominate this world with their insane ideas of what's 'good for others', and to be forced to listen to their crap all day long.

Nobody forces you to listen anymore than I was forced to read your comment. It's still offensive.

ewomack · 02-09-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South

You can't imagine how offensive that is.

Why is it offensive? Remember Ferre said "The scientific value." I would never recommend anyone to refer to the Bible to find cures for diseases, make sulphuric acid, or explain how rainbows appear. Scientifically the Bible doesn't have much value. It does have loads of literary and cultural value and, for some, religious value. He didn't say it had NO value (though I don't know if he believes that or not).

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South

Nobody forces you to listen anymore than I was forced to read your comment. It's still offensive.

Oh well. though.

And you are kidding right? "no one forces me to listen". You can't read the news, view tv, surf the internet without being confronted with religious zealots fighting eachother all the time.

Do you really believe that it is possible to shut yourself off from the reality that religious nutters are dominant in about every single aspect of life?

Tell me, how many religious extremism would there be if there was no Abrahamic scriptures? just try to imagine a world without those for a second.

It would mean that the inquisition never happened, that the Incas would have developed their culture beyond the point that Cortez destroyd it, that there would be no 'muslim terrorists' today, etc.

Fact is that this world is being shaped by religious extremists since the Abrahamic scriptures were written, extremists who ALL believe that they are not extreme at all, they truely believe that they are the 'normal' ones.

**South** · 02-09-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

Tell me, how many religious extremism would there be if there was no Abrahamic scriptures? just try to imagine a world without those for a second.

It would mean that the inquisition never happened, that the Incas would have developed their culture beyond the point that Cortez destroyd it, that there would be no 'muslim terrorists' today, etc.

Fact is that this world is being shaped by religious extremists since the Abrahamic scriptures were written, extremists who ALL believe that they are not extreme at all, they truely believe that they are the 'normal' ones.

Cortez or someone would have destroyed the Incas out of conquest. Conquest was the name of the game in that day, and all though people were sailing "in the name" they were searching for wealth and glory. Greed has caused just as much death as misguided extremists.

The world without Abrahamic scriptures would be filled with people killing people over property, land, race, money, or tribal paint colors, just like today. People willing to use religion as an excuse to kill are just looking for an excuse to kill. If killing, wars, genocide happened only in religious conflict then I would be wrong. The fact that it happens regularly outside of religious consideration means I'm right.

People willing to place the blame on religion are looking for an easy answer, just like those who kill in the name of a peaceful prophet are looking for an easy excuse. Nobody will find real answers that way.

Ferre · 02-09-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South

The world without Abrahamic scriptures would be filled with people killing people over property, land, race, money, or tribal paint colors, just like today.

Maybe, Nothing proves that though. And at least we wouldn't have those idiots trying to 'save the world from infidels'. using carpet bombs at one side of the religious conflict, and terrorist bombings at the other.