Pope Jeopardizes U.S. Tax-Exempt Status of Church

StupidScript · 05-09-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Pope Benedict on Wednesday warned Catholic politicians they risked excommunication from the Church and should not receive communion if they support abortion.

This is pretty big potatos compared to a situation last year:

Quote:

The Internal Revenue Service has warned a prominent liberal church that it could lose its tax-exempt status because of an anti-war sermon a guest preacher gave on the eve of the 2004 presidential election, according to church officials.

The Rev. George F. Regas did not urge parishioners at All Saints Episcopal Church to support either President Bush or John Kerry, but he was critical of the Iraq war and Bush's tax cuts.

The IRS warned the church in June that its tax-exempt status was in jeopardy because such organizations are prohibited from intervening in political campaigns and elections.

But then, maybe extortion (by the Pope) is allowable where opinions (by the CA church) are not?

**G10** · 05-09-2007, 02:51 PM

I don't understand. What has he said that is wrong if they are true catholics and follow the book?

Julie · 05-09-2007, 02:56 PM

Yea, you don't make sense.

Being against abortion is a belief of the Catholic church, and the threat of excommunication, etc. for going against that (as a catholic) isn't the same as going out and telling your parish to vote for a certain candidate.

This is a lame attempt at link bait/attention.

Brian · 05-09-2007, 02:59 PM

the pope is dope

i should join Gio in his tshirt business with the slogans i know

StupidScript · 05-09-2007, 03:10 PM

The problem (tax exemption-wise) is that he exerted undue influence on the political process by singling out politicians. Here's the original:

Quote:

Pope Benedict on Wednesday warned Catholic politicians they risked excommunication from the Church and should not receive communion if they support abortion.

and here's one that would have been fine:

Quote:

Pope Benedict on Wednesday warned Catholics they risked excommunication from the Church and should not receive communion if they support abortion.

In the U.S. we have (supposedly) a "separation of Church and State", whereby the State promises to stay out of Church politics and the Church promises to stay out of American politics. By targetting "politicians", the Pope has broken that promise, in the U.S., at least. Most likely, he was referring to other countries (Brazil and Mexico come to mind), however as the leader of the Catholic Church, worldwide, he has tried to extort U.S. politicians (by inclusion) to make political decisions under threat of excommunication. That's against the rules, over here.

<edit>
What really irks me is that, in fact, there is no danger to the tax-exempt status of the Catholic Church in the U.S. as a result of this. There is way too much money involved. But the IRS felt justified in persecuting an Episcopalian Church because they preached against the Iraq war and advocated using the tax breaks given to our nation's wealthiest individuals instead for the common good ... to assist poverty-level people. It's absurd. I was hoping to spark a discussion of the painfully obvious discrepancies in the way tax-exempt status is used, and of how our system discriminates based on how wealthy and right-wing an organization is. (And yes, it is my opinion that Catholicism is in the right-wing camp.)
</edit>

ScriptMan · 05-09-2007, 03:23 PM

Personally I think we should take away tax exempt status all all property owed by all churchs. I might be willing to give them an allowance on their main place of worship.

They own entirely too much non-related property that is excluded from the tax rolls and that raise the taxes the rest of us pay.

Render under to Casear those tax $.

Julie · 05-09-2007, 08:13 PM

If you can't see the difference, then I feel sorry for you.

Brian · 05-09-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScriptMan

Personally I think we should take away tax exempt status all all property owed by all churchs.

+1

hyperspace · 05-09-2007, 09:54 PM

That new pope gives me the willies. If I had to choose between lunch with him and Gollum I'm leaning towards Gollum. Am I Right?

geo77 · 05-10-2007, 12:59 AM

The pope's in a strange place being both politically neutral and extremely politically charged...depending on where in the world you live. I think it's wrong that he targeted politicians (American?), but there's nothing we can really do about that. I'm more disappointed in the IRS.

Of course, is anyone really ever happy with the IRS?

**G10** · 05-10-2007, 01:57 AM

I can't see how the US has a separation between church and state as even the president seems to claim that some of his choices are driven by God.

I do agree in that he was probably thinking of other countries and ended up putting his foot in it but then again, how can politicians claim to be catholics if they don't follow the book?

Politicians should stay away from religion and visa versa.

btw - Brian, I may take you up on your t-shirts idea dude

Ferre · 05-10-2007, 06:12 AM

Since years I have a photocopy of a letter at home that was send by one of the Bishops to a certain politician in my own country and that letter warned the politician that he could be excommunicated if he voted for the (re)legalization of Cannabis.

This kind of letters are send to more than one politician all the time and it's not just an incident. It's one of the many ways the Vatican influences politics.

StupidScript · 05-10-2007, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

If you can't see the difference, then I feel sorry for you.

Oh, but I can see the differences:

The Pope was engaging in extortion (your soul is damned if you legislate in favor of choice) and his church will not suffer any consequences as a result.

The pastor of the Episcopalian church was making points (without any extortion) about war and poverty, and his church was (is) the subject of an invasive investigation by the IRS.

There's quite a difference between the two, and I think the consequences should have been reversed (U.S. Catholic church should lose its tax-exempt status, Episcopalian church should be applauded).

Which difference were you referring to?
(And thank you for the pity. Makes me smile ...

)

Julie · 05-10-2007, 10:34 AM

The reason that the Episcopalian church was being investigated is likely due to the fact that the sermon basically bashed Bush and his policies. You know how governments, especially this one, like to surpress such things. And if it is a liberal variation of the Protestant religions (which Bush likes to think he dominates), even more reason for them to give them a hard time (in their view). I'm not surprised. I mean, the government bothers peace activists and harmless community groups.

The Pope, however, didn't speak against Bush or anything particularly political. He simply reminded his Catholic politicians of their beliefs. If you support abortion, then you're not supporting a Catholic stance. Which is reason to excommunicate.

Mad Myche · 05-10-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G10

What has he said that is wrong if they are true catholics and follow the book?

Now that's a contradiction, as half of the things the catholics have you do is nowhere to be found in The Bible, and contradictory to it.

The Bible says that adultery is a sin.
The Bible says that a spouse that withholds sex is not blameless when their other half does commit adultery.
The catholics say priests can't have wifes, and parallel that with they are married to the catholic church.
The catholics say priests must be celibate.
QED: The catholic church is not blameless that their leaders are pedophiles

Never mind that the first pope was married, and abandoned his wife.

chrysostom · 05-10-2007, 12:41 PM

Pope Benedict lives in the Vatican which is in Europe and made the statment in Brazile -- which is in South America. The statement was made a year and 1/2 before an election, where there are no declared candidates for yet. His statement was simply affirming an issue of Cannon Law of the Catholic Church that has existed from before the United States became a country.

How in the world is this relevent to a US tax code?

**G10** · 05-10-2007, 12:41 PM

Hey, no-ones perfect

But forget all that stuff, the more interesting stuff is when soldiers go to war and they actually have priests who pray for their safety whilst they go off and kill other people - Get a load of that

And I completely agree, the catholic church is NOT blameless by any stretch of the imagination.

StupidScript · 05-10-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

How in the world is this relevent to a US tax code?

The bottom line is that tax-exempt organizations in the U.S. may not engage in political shenanigans, regardless of where their leader lives or where they are speaking. They don't need to endorse any particular candidate to risk their organizations tax status. Ask the Episcopalians.

If the Pope came to Washington and held a meeting with lobbyists to try to keep politicians from voting pro-choice, he would be in violation of the rules just as strongly as he is when he threatens politicians with a soul-damaging edict from Brazil.

He should have kept politicians out of his speech. Period.

It's perfectly okay for him to threaten members of his flock with eternal damnation, that's what they like. But to attempt to influence the nature of political discourse with such a powerful weapon is where he went out of bounds. HE is the supreme Human leader of every Catholic on the planet with a direct line to God's ear. He knows he wields significant power, and that's why he makes speeches like that. AND that's why churches are not allowed to engage in politicking in the U.S.

The Episcopalians were NOT engaged in politicking ... they were preaching against war and in favor of helping the poorest among us. The Pope was directly threatening politicians.