Animal Rights

[John Scott]

Should animals have rights?

I think the idea of animal rights is an absolute absurdity. People go to jail for harming a dog or cat, but if you slaughter 1,000 cows a day, it's ok? What the hell kind of non-sense is that?

Statistics showed fur sales in the United States increasing slowly but steadily from $1 billion in 1990 to $1.27 billion in 1997

Doesn't look like the anti-fur activism worked too well.

[robert s.]

2005 ------ 1,82 billion

[The American Voters]

So are we advocating if we can do it to cows we can do it to domestic animals? I realize some sort of equality between what we can do to one animal should be allowed to others but do you really expect America to accept butchering of cats and dogs?

[Ferre]

Of course animals have rights. They are living beings. In fact I think they don't have enough rights by far.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Of course animals have rights. They are living beings. In fact I think they don't have enough rights by far.

Ditto.

Animals eat animals. It happens in the Serengeti. It happens in McDonalds in New York.
But, you will never see a non-human animal in the Serengeti pouring bleach into the eye of another animal and taking notes.
You will never see a non-human animal in the Serengeti chain up another animal and leave them there to die.
You will never see a non-human animal in the Serengeti leave another animal in a car on a hot day with the windows rolled up for 2 hours.

Some things are natural. Some are not.

Just because we have power over animals, it doesn't give us the right to do anything and everything we want to/with them.
Because of that power, we have a responsibility to them.
Are they equal to us? No. But they still deserve respect.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by Zap

Are they equal to us? No. But they still deserve respect.

I wonder how the idea got into the avarage person that animals are not equal to humans when it comes down to rghts.

Because they can't talk like us?
Because they use their brains differently?
Because they look different?
Because they are easy to abuse and can't complain?
because some of them taste nice?
Because a certain religious manual says they are here to serve us?


As you see, most of those above reasons could just as good apply to handicapped people, except for the ideas of Abraham, who was a lunatic himself and killed his own son, so much for respect for life, let alone respect for the life of animals.

Equality is not allways about being able to compare with other humans, it's about an equal respect for life and sharing our planet. For me, animals are no less equal than myself, with the difference that we have a responcibility towards them and own them big time for ruining their natural invironments.

Note that I left out "because they are less smart", this because some animals outsmart us in many ways on their own turf.

[Zap]

I wasn't talking about equality in terms of rights, Ferre.
I was speaking in a general sense.

We are all different animals, humans, dogs, birds, fish.
Is a human equal to a dog? No.
Is a dog equal to a fish? No.

But, they have feelings and conciousness and self awareness, as we do.
They feel pain, hunger, happiness, sorrow, anger, etc.
They deserve our respect because of these things.

[Ferre]

I agree, and I also think they are equal to us in all those things you mentioned. They feel, they have conscious and self awareness. Many animals even know how to communicate with humans, they can develope skills just to be able to communicate with others than their own species.

[stewart]

Well one day when animals take over the world, hopefully they remember us nice ones that always treated them well eh ?

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by stewart

Well one day when animals take over the world, hopefully they remember us nice ones that always treated them well eh ?

If there are animals left to take over the world, that is.

[G10]

There is too much testing going on for silly things, cosmetics, crisps etc. This is just bloody stupid and should not be allowed. Basically, it's just greed.

This is probably going to land me in hot water with some people here but things like Cancer testing drugs, I do understand. Not saying it's fair at all but it is nature for the human race to want to survive by trying to make cures for specific illnesses and that will always mean that they will test on animals before people.

[pctec]

I love my dog and she has rights as far as I'm concerned.

As far as a cow goes... I eat cow... I do not eat dog.
The cow does however have rights until its time to be my supper

[Zap]

Originally Posted by G10

This is probably going to land me in hot water with some people here but things like Cancer testing drugs, I do understand. Not saying it's fair at all but it is nature for the human race to want to survive by trying to make cures for specific illnesses and that will always mean that they will test on animals before people.

There's only one small problem with your logic, G10.
The data from animal testing can not be extrapolated to humans and considered trustworthy.

You can test a drug on many different animals and you still won't know what it does to humans until you test it on a human.
Different animals react very differently to drugs.

Thalidomide was tested in high doses on mice, rats, rabbits, cats and dogs and found to be "perfectly safe". But there are thousands of people alive today, with missing limbs, organs and suffering from other birth defects, who can attest to the fact that it is NOT safe for humans.

Many people will try to use reason to justify testing on animals to save human lives but the logic is flawed because, sooner or later, human trials will be necessary anyway because we just don't know how we will react to certain things until we try them. Killing the animals before human trials begin is just a waste of life.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Of course animals have rights. They are living beings. In fact I think they don't have enough rights by far.

Trees are living. Should we give them rights as well?

[The American Voters]

I think they key part of the sentence was living "beings". Trees aren't beings.

[John Scott]

Do animals respect human rights?

[The American Voters]

Animals don't respect human rights. In those regards though... if you're neighbor jumped off a bridge, does that mean you should?

Just because something or someone does something doesn't necessarily mean it's ok to do it.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by