Funny how the actions of a nation are judged different from the outside.
Bush did do a good job on killing the image America had as "Land of the free" in the outside world.
He also killed the image America had as fighter for peace.
America has a new image now, replace the word "America" with "corporates" and you have it.
Mussolini's idea's have always been popular in America, btw.
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The image of a strong leader taking direct charge of an economy during hard times fascinated observers abroad. Italy was one of the places that Franklin Roosevelt looked to for ideas in 1933. Roosevelt's National Recovery Act (NRA) attempted to cartelize the American economy just as Mussolini had cartelized Italy's. Under the NRA Roosevelt established industry-wide boards with the power to set and enforce prices, wages, and other terms of employment, production, and distribution for all companies in an industry. Through the Agricultural Adjustment Act the government exercised similar control over farmers. Interestingly, Mussolini viewed Roosevelt's New Deal as "boldly... interventionist in the field of economics." Hitler's nazism also shared many features with Italian fascism, including the syndicalist front. Nazism, too, featured complete government control of industry, agriculture, finance, and investment.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."- --Johan W. von Goethe
Dumping the idiot won't help, the words democrats, or republicans, that is only another label for the same soup in the States, for all I know (Skull's and Bones) Kerry is pushed by the media to replace Bush but he eats out of the same basket as Bush and will probably produce the same load of *** (if you know what I mean)
"As we see fit" is the problem. As who sees fit? Support for war is dropping like flies in a can of Raid. The renaming of French Fries to Freedom Fries is not the only reason for the world hating the Admin. Bush is a school yard bully, it is his way, or no way. He broke almost every darn treaty in the book, but hey, we do "as we see fit".
It is time Bush took some resposibility, and began working with the world to solve global problems. Unilaterism IS the cancer on the presidency, and many other cancers are forming quickly. I say cut the loses, and move on.
John, I think we won't see eye to eye on this one. I tell ya what, 25 years from now, we'll go for a few beers, and see "what time has told us". From where I sit, in 25 years with hindsight, 'Nam is going to look like a picnic. No one will understand what the big deal was with Nam as Iraq will overshadow everything that came before.
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Dumping the idiot won't help, the words democrats, or republicans, that is only another label for the same soup in the States, for all I know (Skull's and Bones) Kerry is pushed by the media to replace Bush but he eats out of the same basket as Bush and will probably produce the same load of *** (if you know what I mean)
Ferre, you don't have to tell me. I've been saying America is a police state for years. Americans think this country is free only because they have never seen a real free country. Japan is a free. The US is a police state.
It is time Bush took some resposibility, and began working with the world to solve global problems. Unilaterism IS the cancer on the presidency, and many other cancers are forming quickly. I say cut the loses, and move on.
What specific actions are you referring to? Unilateralism is not a cancer. We will never be subject the the whims of other cowardly countries. (French.) Each nation decides its own course. That's the way it should be. That is unilateralism.
If we elected a Pres who asked permission of the UN every time he took a wizz, that would be a sad.
Dumping the idiot won't help, the words democrats, or republicans, that is only another label for the same soup in the States, for all I know (Skull's and Bones) Kerry is pushed by the media to replace Bush but he eats out of the same basket as Bush and will probably produce the same load of *** (if you know what I mean)
Ferre, you don't have to tell me. I've been saying America is a police state for years. Americans think this country is free only because they have never seen a real free country. Japan is a free. The US is a police state.
Yeah, I know what you mean, I have been there a few times, and even China is more free at present times, was there a long time last year. Americans live in denial, It would hurt their delicate feelings too much to admit they got ****ed by a few corrupted *******s who sold them out to the industries who financed their election. This is nothing new and happened a very long time ago (in the 30's to be exact). Point is that they don't give a damn anymore wether the people are aware or not, they have that covered by now (see Patriot act, Rave act, etc.)
They feel (and are) so strong now it all don't matter anymore what the people think, the government knows what's best for them... and has TOTAL control. (or should I say "Halifax control"?) :wink:
What specific actions are you referring to? Unilateralism is not a cancer.
Er, those are Hitlers ideas ...
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Originally Posted by JohnScott
We will never be subject the the whims of other cowardly countries. (French.) Each nation decides its own course. That's the way it should be. That is unilateralism.
Sad. Very sad. Maybe getting rid of Bush won't do squat anymore. Your talking about going after SH for his ideals, while sharing most of them. So if the US starts running out of water, you'd see nothing wrong with Canada saying, "Ya know what, we'll just pass on this deal, and keep the water... we are deciding our own course. You'll get screwed in the process? Ahhh... too bad."
Bush is undermining years of negotiations, and work towards a safer world. He is slapping every president before him by saying "oh, you thought that was a good treaty... nah, it cramps my style, so I will just <poof>, make it disappear. The nation isn't deciding, it is just Bush. Bush broke almost every world law that the guys before him agreed on. That's not a nation, that is once again unilateraism.
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Originally Posted by JohnScott
If we elected a Pres who asked permission of the UN every time he took a wizz, that would be a sad.
Bush wasn't elected.
With that mind frame, the friends a nation has would eliminate the need for enemies. Guess you need to start hoping that the world does not adapt the same idealogy...
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Funny how the actions of a nation are judged different from the outside.
I think this might be the root of much of the problem: the inability to see oneself from outside. Like John says, "who cares about the others, we'll just do our own thing". Total ignorace.
I've lived in many countries, and still keep contact with them... Ignorant is the #1 term used to described America... I've had the chance to live in the USA for a year, and always remind people that not everyone is the same, and less than half the population that voted wanted Bush in... I hope that people don't forget that.
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You are talking about ever man for himself... screw what the world thinks. Today maybe things are not so bad, but what if tomorrow the Admin changes their mind on something again, and still feels "screw the opinions of others"? Where does that leave things at?
The Admin is keeping tons of people locked up, without charging them... I think that the courts have a dirty enough track record where this kind of thing should not be happening. Too many mistakes were made in the past... A lot of poeple are being treated inhumanely by the Admin... So they live to tell about., they don't get killed (maybe they do). How many of those people wish they didn't live? Pretty tyranic if you ask me... Why does the admin rely on places like guantamobay? Why not do this on US soil, with US laws? Isn't that a pretty clear sign of some twisted abuse of power?
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You are talking about ever man for himself... screw what the world thinks. Today maybe things are not so bad, but what if tomorrow the Admin changes their mind on something again, and still feels "screw the opinions of others"? Where does that leave things at?
No, not even close. It's called a democracy. It's called the United States of America. It is a sovereign nation. How the hell do the actions of a duly elected President turn into "every man for himself"?
You don't need to surrender sovereignty to the UN or EU or any other body to be acting in a democracy.
We have a beatiful system whereby, if the Pres acts out of line, the congress gets to impeach him. It's democracy at work.
First takes the views of others into consideration, the others flips a bird and says we do "as we see fit" (I quote ya buddy).
First is a civilised response to a situation, second is, well: ignorant.
Ignorant? Nope. You may have disagreed with some actions of the President, but that doesn't make him ignorant. He was duly elected by the people. His decisions are not made in drunken haste. Nor does he hold absolute power. He is subject to the democratic process.
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I think your lines between sovereign nation and unilateral action are blurry
First takes the views of others into consideration, the others flips a bird and says we do "as we see fit" (I quote ya buddy).
Um, so you're saying either take others views into consideration or flip a birdie? That's a crude, uneducated statement. As a elected official who is responsible for millions of lives, I'm sure the President is capable of both - both considering the views of others and of acting on behalf of the nation that elected him, even when other nations may disagree.
And no, he never flipped a birdie to anyone. As the President, if he was given to cheap rhetotic such as yours, this nation would be a mess.
If you think you can do better, get yourself elected. It is, after all, a beautiful democracy.
with so many inconsitancies coming out in the Clarke acount of things how can we possibly look at him as anything else "but" a liar?
I am a registered republican... have been all my adult life having been raised in a staunchly republican home by republican parents, however, these last few weeks I've been having a rough time of it deciding who "I" personally think should get my vote in November. With all the crap being slung from both sides of the isle I'm starting to think that Nader or even Micky mouse would be a much better choice for the office.
Personally I've grown very weary of all that head hunting being done by the "parties" and am starting to form the opinion that the parties be damned. Lets move to a one party system - the american party and put partisan politics behind us and away from us. I'm not suggesting, by any stretch of the imagination that we change our current social structure, merely that we should send a clear message to potential candidates that we're all very sick and tired of how things are and have been for all these many years where politics are concerned.
For instance...its easy for me to look at Bush and judge him on what he's accomplished...its right there where I can "see" it. Kerry, on the other hand says he's going to do this or that, but never bothers to share exactly how he intends to do this or that. He just "says" he's going to do it and then tells us how our current leadership has done nothing but lied to us. PLEASE... thats just another talking head spewing rhetoric. Rhetoric don't feed the bull dog and this dog is ready to bite "that" hand.
In my view (and the view of billions of people around the world), Bush's track record shows no consideration for anyone else's opinion. Comments such as "I am sick and tired of waiting" or "You're with us or against us" are not those of a man considering the opinions of others.
If Bush was considering and listening to others, he would not be on a constant chase for a reason to be in Iraq. When his claims about WMD turned into one big hole of a theory, he went on to the next reason why the US should be there... hop, hop, hop. The sign of a man on a mission, not a man out to make an educated decision... he made up his mind looooong time ago without consulting anyone.
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