Not so fast, Christian soldiers

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

That was an observation, not a defence. As I stated many times in the past, I do not aree with the policies in my own country either, although some of our laws are more respectful of universal human rights than we see in other countries.

It wasn't an observation, it was a misrepresentation. You stated that democratic socialism works in the Netherlands. If it doesn't guarantee the rights of the individual against the lusts of the collective, then it doesn't work. I guess a slave owner would say "it works" in reference to a law that allows him to keep slaves, but to say "it works" wouldn't be anyway near to being universally acceptable or even nominally tenable.

Originally Posted by Ferre

What's with your memory John? do I have to repeat everything I say time and time again for you to be able to grasp it?

When you contradict yourself, yes, I'll have to keep being reminded. When you claim to be anarchist, and then want gov'ts to do this or that, it's quite confusing. If you are indeed an anarchist, as you claim to be, you should have no intentions for the government other than ceasing to exist.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

When you contradict yourself, yes, I'll have to keep being reminded. When you claim to be anarchist, and then want gov'ts to do this or that, it's quite confusing. If you are indeed an anarchist, as you claim to be, you should have no intentions for the government other than ceasing to exist.

John, I do live in a society in which I have to live by the laws of that society and I do have the right to judge seperate laws to their effects on this society. My political ideology might be Anarchism, but I am not actively into politics or into changing systems, I'm an observer from the side line, just as you and billions of other people with us.

Don't try to paint me as a political activist, I am not, but I do have the right to state my opinions on what I observe, just as you have this right. This might come as a surprise to you but I'm quite moderate in my actions and have enough respect for the system I live in to use the possibilities this system provides me to display my own thoughts, without resorting to defending or wanting to actively tear it down.

As in all systems, there are good things and bad things, pointing out the good things doesn't make me approve of the whole system at all.

[South]

Ferre, it surprises me how all over the road you are. I can make the comparison because two breeds of dogs are still both dogs. If it's working in the Netherlands that's great...and if the government has you convinced that's what's best for you then that's great too. Democracy is the most effective tool tyranny has.

[ewomack]

Originally Posted by South

If it's working in the Netherlands that's great...and if the government has you convinced that's what's best for you then that's great too. Democracy is the most effective tool tyranny has.

Democracy only works if people have access to the information they need to make informed decisions (free press, transparent decision making, etc) as well as be given the legal right to practice those decisions. Without those, democracy can just as easily turn into a despotism. Democracy by itself doesn't automatically entail "freedom" (in quotes because that word means different things to different people). Tyranny by democracy remains a very ominous possibility.

The gov't here spends a lot of time convincing us that democracy is best. Like any other political system, it works much better for some than for others.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by South

Ferre, it surprises me how all over the road you are. I can make the comparison because two breeds of dogs are still both dogs. If it's working in the Netherlands that's great...and if the government has you convinced that's what's best for you then that's great too. Democracy is the most effective tool tyranny has.

South bro, the government in my country has never been able to convince me that the system we have is best for me, what I do know is, and I did travel to many countries, that the system I live in is one of the least worse of most of the systems I have witnessed abroad. That doesn't make it a good system, it just makes it one of the best liveable for people who like their human rights to be respected.

Also, millions of people, including numerous Americans, who visit Amsterdam every year and praise our "freedoms" will agree with me on that. Compared to the system I live in, the American system is a police state, ask anyone of your friends who has ever been here what they have witnessed from Dutch police behavior and you'll know what I mean by that.

Again, I don't say our system is a good one but I have to deal with it, as anyone else on this planet has to deal with their own government and laws, unless they are terrorists or revolutionairs and I am none of those.

Point I try to make is that political systems are usually compromises between the establishment and the people, whatever label they have is only a result of how much one of the two has given in and in our western societies the line between the different labels is often only in name but not in practise, again I refer to the American system which by means of laws has changed from a republic - to a democratic republic to, since patriot acts and more human right and constitution violating laws, into a theocratic police state and although it is still, in name, a republic, there is nothing left from the original constitution for the people to claim as their rights.

Don't get me wrong, America is not the only country in the world where people are stripped from their individual rights under the pretext of "security" or other false claims, in the Netherlands it's no better although it isn't going as fast as we see happening in countries like Brittain or the US. That doesn't mean that we are not slowly becoming a police state as well.

All my life I was not busy with international politics, I had too much on my mind running a couple of companies and taking care of my family, but since I'm retired I have the time and the peace of mind to open up my eyes for things I never realized to be that influencial on our daily lives such as the influence of religion and globalisation, both of them I found to be not such a positive influence btw.

I'm also in the position that I am totally independent from any government, I own the houses I have, pay taxes on my properties and the government needs me (my money), not the other way around, there's nothing I expect from my government but doing what I pay them to do and that is to protect my human rights, if governments violate this service I pay them to do I see that as bad management and in the old days when I still had managers working for me they would have been sacked immediately.

[cldnails]

Liberals killed Jesus and are attempting to kill God. Boo hoo.