Finding Osama bin Laden

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by backgammonnn123

Can anyone here give me a brief history on mohammad mossadegh? Maybe after studying hinm you will all understand why we have islamic extemism at all out there.
Knowledge is power

Knowledge is power, and Islamic extremism is hardly the product of Mohammed Mosaddeq.

[chicgeek]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Amazing how an ignorant position can become so "hip".

US troops are in Afghanistan to support the new democratic government. The one that allows girls to get an education. The one that doesn't order the rape of a 13 year old girl as a penalty for talking to boys.

Yeah, I am proud of what the US has done in Afghanistan. Hell yeah!

See, this is why is refuse to post in the Politics forum as a rule. You blatantly call me an ignoramus and then point fingers at others for calling names. There are ways to say things without.... oh nevermind.

Editing directory submissions is more fun than this.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by chicgeek

See, this is why is refuse to post in the Politics forum as a rule. You blatantly call me an ignoramus and then point fingers at others for calling names. There are ways to say things without.... oh nevermind.

Editing directory submissions is more fun than this.

I said the position is ignorant. Which it is. "What are we doing in Afghanistan?" We're doing a hell of a lot of good.

Just because US-bashing is popular doesn't mean it is the intelligent thing to do.

[chicgeek]

I'm an early music soprano, own a red labcoat from geek school and spend 90% of my life on my computer. Since when am I concerned about the popular thing to do?

Anyway - working. Won't reply again, too off-topic. My bad.

[kristeejo]

I completely agree with you Laura and I love the US of A. We're doing far more damage than good over there. Our children will realize just how much damage.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by kristeejo

I completely agree with you Laura and I love the US of A. We're doing far more damage than good over there. Our children will realize just how much damage.

Not even the anti-war, anti-Bush democrats say that. Sure, they say it about Iraq, but they don't say it about Afghanistan. Even Bush's detractors admit that Afghanistan was a great success.

[kristeejo]

Time will tell.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by kristeejo

Time will tell.

Time has already told us some things. The extreme punishments of the Taliban - mutilation, rape, stoning - for minor offenses; this has stopped.

Girls were previously denied education are being educated.

Women who were subject to strict laws are now free to work, get an education, travel.

And the support for democracy, and the opposition to Islamic extremism, is strong in Afghanistan. Sorry to disappoint, but we did good.

If you want to run your mouth, I'd recommend running it against our presence in Iraq.

[kristeejo]

What are you over-compensating for exactly?







oh. i bet i know.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by kristeejo

What are you over-compensating for exactly?

American women are so predictable. North American, I should say. Go into any trailer park in North America, and you'll hear women commenting on penis size. It's the only thing small intellects have to do.

[kristeejo]

You are such an ass. You just can't handle it when someone has an opinion that differs from your own.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by kristeejo

You are such an ass. You just can't handle it when someone has an opinion that differs from your own.

I appreciate opinions that differ from my own. But only when they are intelligent.

You come into this thread, agree with Laura, on the basis of what? When put to backing up your statement, the best you can offer is "time will tell"?

I believe we have done great wrong in Afghanistan. As proof of this, I offer: time will tell.

Should I applaud the intellectual abilities?

How about state that, perhaps Afghanistan would appreciate their democracy more if they had a bigger hand in doing it for themselves. Or state that instead of using Western armies to establish democracy, perhaps we should have gotten other Arabic nations to do the bulk of the work in Afghanistan, to avoid the appearance of a Crusade.

Those would at least be arguments. Simply saying "time will tell" doesn't qualify as an argument.

[robert s.]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Time has already told us some things. The extreme punishments of the Taliban - mutilation, rape, stoning - for minor offenses; this has stopped.

Girls were previously denied education are being educated.

Women who were subject to strict laws are now free to work, get an education, travel.

And the support for democracy, and the opposition to Islamic extremism, is strong in Afghanistan. Sorry to disappoint, but we did good.

If you want to run your mouth, I'd recommend running it against our presence in Iraq.

in my opinion, you are right - and you are wrong!

i do not know, if you ever have been to afghanistan. the bloody country is huge and there is no effing chance, you control the country with 19500 americans and 6500 soldiers from other countries.

yes the americans did good, by getting rid of the taliban. but the real power in afghanistan is now not with the government, but with the warlords and the tribal chiefs in different parts of the country.

and yes, the life is now a lot better and easier for the women in afghanistan than before. and the life in general is improving - but only in the areas where there is heavy presence of foreign armies. there the laws are obeyed and life is "civilized". big improvement for the people - and yes, the americans did good here!

but outside the "power-zones" the country is ruled by the warlords and tribes. and the whole atmosphere is pretty "lawless". estimations are that 2007 about 85 % of the worlds opium and opium-products will be grown, harvested and produced in afghanistan.

the presence of foreign soldiers is in this case not a matter of "black or white" it is like so often grey.... there are many things which were improved and bettered, but also things which got worse. and only time will tell, if it was the right thing, to start the whole "ballihoo".

personally, i fear that kristeejo is right and our children will pay the bill....

[John Scott]

the presence of foreign soldiers is in this case not a matter of "black or white" it is like so often grey.

You said nothing to establish this point.

but the real power in afghanistan is now not with the government, but with the warlords and the tribal chiefs in different parts of the country.

The struggle is ongoing, and from the looks of it the democratic gov't appears to be solidly established. You want to blame this on the US pretense?

I see a lot of White. Where is the Black you refer to? Black caused by US presence in Afghanistan.

there are many things which were improved and bettered, but also things which got worse.

Such as? Am I supposed to imagine here? Or employ telepathy? Or are you going to state some bad caused by US presence in Afghanistan?

i fear that kristeejo is right and our children will pay the bill....

Are you going to offer any argument to support this statement, or are you playing the part of a psychic?

[robert s.]

Originally Posted by John Scott

You said nothing to establish this point.




The struggle is ongoing, and from the looks of it the democratic gov't appears to be solidly established. You want to blame this on the US pretense?

I see a lot of White. Where is the Black you refer to? Black caused by US presence in Afghanistan.



Such as? Am I supposed to imagine here? Or employ telepathy? Or are you going to state some bad caused by US presence in Afghanistan?



Are you going to offer any argument to support this statement, or are you playing the part of a psychic?

i cant do the fancy "quoting thing" - but i try to answer one by one:

first, i blame in afghanistan nothing on the US, because it was a decision from the UN to go there. so to blame would be them not the US.

second, yes the struggle is ongoing. a very good friend of mine is there with the germans and what i get from him is that there are regions where there is absolute control of the situation. elections can be held and these regions would be almost ready, to be turned over to the afghanis themselves. but as soon as you step out of the influence zone - it is far from being under control.

and here is the "black" - the warlords, who were under some kind of cruel power of the talibans, have now a free-hand to do what they want, because lets face it: the foreign armies have still their hands full, to fight the "religious problems". so the warlords are running havock. but is this "black" caused by the foreign presence? hard to answer - would they not be there, we would not have the warlords, but the taliban..... its like choosing if you get killed by car or bike...the outcome is the same.

the thing which got worse, and i am sorry for being not clear, is the increase of the opium plantations. the problem is that this gets a lot(!!!!) of money into very dangerous hands and the outcome, or what will be done with this money is something i do not like to think about.

and on the last point: john, a fear is not a statement! you cant back up a feeling with facts... it is my personal feeling that the outcome will not be positive, but i sincerely hope that my feeling is wrtong there.