WHY DO THEY HATE US? Let me count the ways

[Atom]

Ferre ... YOU ENCOURAGE THE USE OF PSYCHOACTIVE( MIND/MOOD ALTERING) DRUGS!


I "DIS"COURAGE IT!!!

[Rivux]

Damn that was a long read, but I manage to make it through all 7 pages. I had a whole message I was going to write, but then on page 5 everyone made up, so now I have to ditch that message and post something else.

The big thing I noticed from the thread was Atom's obvious dislike of referring to the American Goverment as 'Americans' in general. But really, the American people voted him in, so atleast half (in most cases atleast) voted for Bush, which means he is representing those people.

To people outside of America (actually North America) there is very little difference between "American Government" and "Americans", it is all one in the same. So using them interchangeably in a conversation can be appropriate in most cases.


On a side note, I dislike Bush's policies and general attitute but I love him for his determination for carrying out those policies and attitudes. You can not accuse Bush of being a fence sitter, he has a set of beliefs and he is President so he is going to apply those beliefs, gotta give the man credit for that. There is nothing worse in life then being indecisive which is something Bush does not have to worry about being accused of.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by Rivux

The big thing I noticed from the thread was Atom's obvious dislike of referring to the American Goverment as 'Americans' in general.

Yeah, Im kinda funny like that ...

I guess it's just not a good idea to generalize like that around me, because I "will" react to it, no matter if generalizing in this manner is thought acceptable or not.

I mean... unless you don't mind getting your a$$ jumped, that is.

I don't do it ... and I "will" react to people that do do it, around me.

Not saying I'm right.... just saying I "will" react.

And I'm not talking about generalizations such as Frag's doughnut comment either.... I have a feeling that most people here know what I'm talking about. A general vindictiveness toward "the people" of a nation.

examples:

Quote: "Oops, sorry, I forgot Americans still believe they are "bringing peace"

Quote: "This is excactly the American attitude the world out here is getting tired of"

Quote: "Try not to do it the American way when you don't agree with people"

Quote: "something the Americans have forgotten since 9/11"

All vindictive statements by a vindictive person toward Americans.

This is sowing discord ... no matter how you slice it.

No mention of government, no mention of leaders, no mention of politicians, no mention of military in these statements ..... just "Americans" ...

If there is an attitude problem with Americans, then it's no wonder ...when you've got instigators like this person stupidly making assumptions about "millions" of people.

[Ferre]

Listen, "The Dutch", like me, ARE responcable for our politics, and so are AMERICANS!!
It's a load of crap to pretend you are not responcable for your government's actions,

Dutch people are responcable, this means, "the Dutch" are helping America. Our government REPRESENT ME and does everything out of MY name.

I now understand this is not the case in America, "Americans" can not be attended to their responcability for their government's actions because they are not. Ok, I see, sorry Atom, I didn't know that. So in the end, even Bush isn't respocable for the American politics, lol, no one is, I see.

Sorry man, I thought, for a moment, that you guys were represented, sorry for that. I didn't realize the US administration is not representing the "people". Weird, here in Holland politicians do.

maybe I have to adopt this one, much easyer on the concious. next time someone points out to me that the Dutch were slave traders in the past I can honestly say nono, it were not "the Dutch" trading slaves, it was the 'administration'. The Dutch had nothing to do with that, they never had the benefits. This would be correct according to what you state above right?

And Atom, please keep that 'druggie' thing out of it, it's pathetic.

[Atom]

Ferre quote: "And Atom, please keep that 'druggie' thing out of it"


You asked for it bro.

[Atom]

Ferre quote: "It's a load of crap to pretend you are not responcable for your government's actions."

I am going to assume that you are actually addressing me, Atom, and respond to the above statement:

How can the truth be false?

And... who's pretending?

The governing system is responsible for their actions... and I have never been a part of that..... ever

I have never voted in my life.... and if you think that my decision to not excersize that right is a form of participation in that system... you are wrong.

Yes... I have to live in the system... but I am not of it, and never have been.

I'm kinda funny like that you know...

..and if you think that people that are not of the system don't have a voice .... wrong again... my lungs work fine

you know... that's what's kinda nice about America... I really am free ... for "whatever" reasons

it's pretty kool...

[Ferre]

Aint language a strange thing. Specially when it comes down to 'generalising'.

When you hear "We kicked Saddam out of Iraq",
or "we" have helped Europe in the 1940's.
or "Without us, you would be all still speaking german" (US spokesman in an interview in Holland)

one would assume "we" stands for "Americans".

Btw, I have noticed that the American politicians are using a new word for us outside the US, last night I heard them talk about "aliens". They meant people who are not American. Nice one. Not 'foreigners', or 'people with different nationality, no, we are "aliens".
they where talking about "illegal aliens". as if you are not from the same planet if you're not American. talking about generalising, should I feel insulted personally to be called an Alien by American politicians? I don't know really, need to think about that. And why would they use this word for non-Americans? To point out we are somehow not human? or a different species?

As I said, aint language a strange thing.

[Fusion]

Yawn. What verbiage

[Atom]

Originally Posted by FuSion

Yawn. What verbiage

You gonna liven this party up for us here or what ?

[Rizande]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Aint language a strange thing. Specially when it comes down to 'generalising'.

When you hear "We kicked Saddam out of Iraq",
or "we" have helped Europe in the 1940's.
or "Without us, you would be all still speaking german" (US spokesman in an interview in Holland)

one would assume "we" stands for "Americans".

Btw, I have noticed that the American politicians are using a new word for us outside the US, last night I heard them talk about "aliens". They meant people who are not American. Nice one. Not 'foreigners', or 'people with different nationality, no, we are "aliens".
they where talking about "illegal aliens". as if you are not from the same planet if you're not American. talking about generalising, should I feel insulted personally to be called an Alien by American politicians? I don't know really, need to think about that. And why would they use this word for non-Americans? To point out we are somehow not human? or a different species?

As I said, aint language a strange thing.

Seriously, if you could name that the US is doing that effects your everyday life as a person I would be surprised. I mean, for whatever reason your very worried about the US and the power they have and how they use it, i'm just curious is to why. I'm not trying to be negative, i'm just trying to get to the real reason behind all this.

[Ferre]

The actions of the US government do inflict people's every day life everywhere on this earth.
The above (first post) list gave enough reasons for anyone to understand the global impact, "pollution", "corruption" being only a few.

Check out this here btw, I'm not the only one in the world with questions.

http://www.brusselstribunal.org/

[Fusion]

Hey in your avatar all I can see is a nose and some hair lmao. Just joking.

Good read all this.

[Rizande]

Originally Posted by Ferre

The actions of the US government do inflict people's every day life everywhere on this earth.
The above (first post) list gave enough reasons for anyone to understand the global impact, "pollution", "corruption" being only a few.

Check out this here btw, I'm not the only one in the world with questions.

http://www.brusselstribunal.org/

Your right, those types of things do happen in governments, but everything you said, like polution and corruption, you dont think that those problems are in other governments also? If so, how does the pollution and corruption by the US effect you?

[Ferre]

They effect every one on this planet, also you, and if you can't see that I guess you still have some learning to do.
You are asking me for the obvious. Why don't you do some research on the GLOBAL effects of DEPLETED URANIUM. Also, do a simple reasearch on how much % of the world pollution is caused by the US. It's scary! Pollution is a Global thing, specially when you pollute the air.

Sure, those things happen in other governments too. Is that a reason to agree with it? All other countries also procecute when they find out.
Also, when a government claimes to "mean well" for the world but doesn't act like they do, what to believe? When they violate the Geneva convention, when they maintain a concentration camp, when they get kicked out of the Human rights commission, what to think of those well meant "words", they are just that. "words". What kind of "freedom" do they want to establish?
then there's this lie. The administration didn't only lie to their own people, they have lied to the whole world about many things lately. In fact, no one knows when they speak the truth anymore. (the American government, that is.)

How are non Americans (aliens) supposed to trust this government, can you answer that one?



Btw, a little update, wich I'm very sure the media in good old land of the free is not mentioning.
I was watching an interview on Dutch tv with General P. Cammaert, who is the UN secretary militairy adviser (and Dutch) and he was asked if the UN would go and help out the US in Iraq. As we all know, he said, the American administration "didn't need us to go in", but it looks like they need us to get out. This will not happen. The American administration has got itself way too much involved with problems that can only have a political solution, and not with arms. Becouse of their actions they have created an invironment that makes it impossible for any peace keeping force to operate. The problems in Iraq can not be soved with force and will need a political solution.
General P. Cammaert also said that American diplomates are "desperately" seeking for support from the UN at present times.

Guess you can rename those fries again, lol.

[Rizande]

Well i certainly dont think america hasn't done anything wrong, i'm just saying that you may have to sacrifice some people's feelings to keep our country safe. Before 9/11 no one would even think twice about being attacked by a foreign country on our own land. And if you notice, america doesn't fight on their own land, it doesn't happen. And so when someone threatens that, then were forced to eliminate any threat. We didn't wake up one day and decide to go kick iraqs ass, nor did they say, how else can we piss the rest of the world off. I actually have friends that are in iraq right now, i went to school with them, i'm waiting to go to basic training because i'm going to be an information systems technician in the US Navy. So otherwise i probably wouldn't even say a word about all this. I obviously haven't read every news report or seen every interveiw, im not out to prove that america is the best country, cause in my eyes it is, but in others it isn't, whether that be pollution, or whatever problems each individual may have with us, they're going to have them, and i'm not going to convince you or anyone else otherwise, so i guess we both look at things in different ways, so i can't really be mad at you for it.

[rtroxel]

Joan Russow (PhD) is a well educated moron who cannot fathom what the price of freedom really is.

Is she like this every month?

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by rtroxel

Is she like this every month?

Very well build argument btw. Why is it so much easyer to bash on the messanger then to actually give some real good arguments why, for excample, the US is breaking international agreements to make this world a little cleaner. (besides of the $$)
Or why they have to commit war crimes in the name of fighting for liberation and peace.

Could it have to do with education?

BTW, if that's the "price of freedom", KEEP YOUR FREEDOM< ours is a lot more ethical.