Liberals versus Capitalism

[m42]

Originally Posted by John Scott

A woman quoting John Locke! I'm in love!

*laugh* You're not so bad yourself.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by m42

The Constitution of the United States ...

Thank you for that, m42.

So, would it be accurate to say that the two major parties were born of opposing interpretation of the constitution?

[m42]

Hm... maybe.

Our founding fathers were primarily opposed to political parties. When Hamilton founded the Federalist Party, he backed ideals that imposed more government control and fewer rights for Americans.

The Democratic-Republican Party was founded that same year in order to counter the Federalists and ensure no party ran unopposed.

I don't know that it initially had much to do with interpreting the Constitution.

You've lost me. What exactly are you driving at?

[Atom]

Originally Posted by m42

Hm... maybe.

Our founding fathers were primarily opposed to political parties. When Hamilton founded the Federalist Party, he backed ideals that imposed more government control and fewer rights for Americans.

The Democratic-Republican Party was founded that same year in order to counter the Federalists and ensure no party ran unopposed.

I don't know that it had much to do with interpreting the Constitution.

You've lost me. What exactly are you driving at?

I simply want to understand why I should vote, to be quite honest.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Atom

I simply want to understand why I should vote, to be quite honest.

The choice is basically between classic liberalism / laissez-faire liberalism (right wing) OR American Liberalism (left wing), which is a socialistic welfare statism that that promotes wealth redistribution and and limiting individual freedom in the perceived interests of the collective good.

Individualism, or collectivism.

The problem is, in order to get elected, you have to be somewhat of a welfare statist. Ron Paul and other laissez-faire liberals don't get the vote because they refuse to play Robinhood.

[thegamerslink]

I'm going to butt in here and say some things and they may or may not be correct but I'll say them any how :-).

It's the duty of every American that is capable to vote. Many many have given their lives and suffered much anguish to ensure that every American in good standing have that right. Many say that it doesn't matter if they vote because the delegates or the electorates are just going to vote for who they want to vote for any how so what do I matter? That is the propaganda that is fed to the public by opposing parties in order to attempt to decrease the turnout of the voters for those that are running against them.

Many states are now taking steps to over ride the delegate system by implementing legislation that would require delegates to cast their vote to the one with the popular vote. This in my opinion is a step that shouldn't take place as it destroys the checks and balances that were put into place that allowed for each state to have a vote equal in weight to it's population. Only in the last 8 years have we run into the problem of the race being so close that the electorial and the popular vote were so close that we could actually see the difference before that it was just general knowledge the electoral could vote outside it's state voters wishes.
And we found out that it's possible to win the electorate and lose the popular. Such is our system of checks and balances, this is not some well executed conspiracy the Republicans executed but merely the way our system has always been set up, I don't think it was ever conceived that the country would be the size it is or that an election would be dependent on electrical or computer devices on such a large scale.

I never in my life even had a nightmare that allowed for a presidential candidate that through such a childish temper tantrum when they lose under any circumstances would cause such a rift in the country for such a long period of time. Seeing how Gore acted when he was faced with such a situation showed me that he definitely was not qualified to run a hot dog stand on a corner in New York, let alone a country such as the United States. And this has been the principal the democratic party has ran ever since they lost that election. Convincing as many people that they can that the election was a fraud. When in actuality it was a true test of how good our election process works. And if there would be any question, if Al Gore had taken office instead of George Bush many of you wouldn't be here to have this debate about it as the Trade Center wouldn't have been the only homeland devastation we experienced that much is a certainty.

In closing, you want to sit here and bitch and complain about the government and how it does this and does that, how you think you could have done it better. Or you moan and groan about a large deficit or the fact that a handful of politicians use their government cards for things they have no business using them for and then you dare ask the question "why should I vote"......there used to be a saying I seem to recollect that went something like "Shut up or vote".....not quite sure if that was the exact saying but you get the general idea, if you're not part of the solution then you are most definitely part of the problem.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by John Scott

The choice is basically between classic liberalism / laissez-faire liberalism (right wing) OR American Liberalism (left wing), which is a socialistic welfare statism that that promotes wealth redistribution and and limiting individual freedom in the perceived interests of the collective good.

Individualism, or collectivism.

The problem is, in order to get elected, you have to be somewhat of a welfare statist. Ron Paul and other laissez-faire liberals don't get the vote because they refuse to play Robinhood.

I see. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time choosing.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by thegamerslink

I'm going to butt in here and say some things and they may or may not be correct but I'll say them any how :-).

It's the duty of every American that is capable to vote. Many many have given their lives and suffered much anguish to ensure that every American in good standing have that right. Many say that it doesn't matter if they vote because the delegates or the electorates are just going to vote for who they want to vote for any how so what do I matter? That is the propaganda that is fed to the public by opposing parties in order to attempt to decrease the turnout of the voters for those that are running against them.

Many states are now taking steps to over ride the delegate system by implementing legislation that would require delegates to cast their vote to the one with the popular vote. This in my opinion is a step that shouldn't take place as it destroys the checks and balances that were put into place that allowed for each state to have a vote equal in weight to it's population. Only in the last 8 years have we run into the problem of the race being so close that the electorial and the popular vote were so close that we could actually see the difference before that it was just general knowledge the electoral could vote outside it's state voters wishes.
And we found out that it's possible to win the electorate and lose the popular. Such is our system of checks and balances, this is not some well executed conspiracy the Republicans executed but merely the way our system has always been set up, I don't think it was ever conceived that the country would be the size it is or that an election would be dependent on electrical or computer devices on such a large scale.

I never in my life even had a nightmare that allowed for a presidential candidate that through such a childish temper tantrum when they lose under any circumstances would cause such a rift in the country for such a long period of time. Seeing how Gore acted when he was faced with such a situation showed me that he definitely was not qualified to run a hot dog stand on a corner in New York, let alone a country such as the United States. And this has been the principal the democratic party has ran ever since they lost that election. Convincing as many people that they can that the election was a fraud. When in actuality it was a true test of how good our election process works. And if there would be any question, if Al Gore had taken office instead of George Bush many of you wouldn't be here to have this debate about it as the Trade Center wouldn't have been the only homeland devastation we experienced that much is a certainty.

In closing, you want to sit here and bitch and complain about the government and how it does this and does that, how you think you could have done it better. Or you moan and groan about a large deficit or the fact that a handful of politicians use their government cards for things they have no business using them for and then you dare ask the question "why should I vote"......there used to be a saying I seem to recollect that went something like "Shut up or vote".....not quite sure if that was the exact saying but you get the general idea, if you're not part of the solution then you are most definitely part of the problem.

I think that you may be confusing me with someone else, Brad.

[thegamerslink]

Actually I was using you as an avenue to get my point off to others that may be looking in but not posting :-) No personal offense meant :-)

[Atom]

I see. Ok then, n/p.

[Atom]

So, who determines if I'm capable of voting?

[m42]

You and the government.

Might I suggest you read this before posting again?

http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Voting.shtml

[Atom]

Originally Posted by m42

You and the government.

Might I suggest you read this before posting again?

http://www.usa.gov/Citizen/Topics/Voting.shtml

No. If you don't wish to answer my questions, then don't. Pretty simple.

[Atom]

Brad,

I can assure you with all of my heart, that I have determined myself incapable of voting up to this point, and do not foresee myself becoming among the capable in my lifetime.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Atom

No. If you don't wish to answer my questions, then don't. Pretty simple.

LOL. Atom, she's just not used to your posting style.

[m42]

Originally Posted by Atom

No. If you don't wish to answer my questions, then don't. Pretty simple.

That url was an answer to your question.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by John Scott