Isn't it illegal to ignore a crime in progress?

[thegamerslink]

This illegal immigrants situation is something that is really confusing me to no end, and perhaps someone with more insight can help me make a little sense out of it.

It's a law that people entering this country must follow a process to obtain visas or citizenship. Basically a person has to obtain permission to come to this country. Is this not a law?

Then you have places like New York, San Francisco and countless other places that have a mayor, chief of police, sheriff and other public officials knowingly allowing those that have entered our country not following any rules or guidelines. Why then are they not themselves criminally negligent by not enforcing or reporting these violations???

I mean I see it like this, there are millions of people in this country that have followed all the rules and worked hard. And be it from hard work or being in the right place at the right time or whatever the reason have come to this country in a legal and accepted status. Everything they have done all the work they do is completely and totally diminished by those that come in illegally and get the same if not more benefits and treatment as the ones following the laws do. I find that to be very wrong. And I think the ones turning a blind eye so to speak should themselves be prosecuted whether they be mayors, police chiefs, sheriffs or business owners.

What say you?

[m42]

1. Immigration is a Federal issue.

2. The cities you've listed are Sanctuary Cities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_cities should answer your question as to why certain cities don't help enforce the Federal immigration laws.

3. Illegal immigrants take jobs people don't want at dirt cheap prices. It's nice not having to pay 5 dollars for a head of lettuce.

Hope this helps to clarify it for you!

Alex.

[thegamerslink]

Ok, this is going to be a subject that we probably don't agree on :-) I understand what a sanctuary state is.

What I don't understand is, if there is a law, be it state or local it is still a law and if a public official such as a police officer ignores this law then they themselves are in violation of it and should be prosecuted for in the least criminal negligence. And if a township or city refuses under whatever loophole to enforce federal law then they should be disallowed federal money or assistance. The problem is not that these workers work jobs that noone else wants for prices less than others would accept. Already this is starting to not be the case. I forget what state but I believe it's California a group of "illegal immigrants" that work for car washes are attempting to create a union for better wages and benefits. Under federal law and the constitution they are allowed to do this simply because they work here regardless of their naturalization status.

This is another problem that while it may have started in the 80's is having social impacts on a monumental scale now. Not only are people entering our country without feeling they have to follow the legalities required to be here properly but they are demanding that our society bend to conform to what they want. I find that to be unacceptable. Not to mention the probability of an illegal immigrant to break the law in a fashion other than just being here is exponentially higher than ones that have followed the rule of law in order to get here.

There are if I'm not mistaken already a procedure in place for seasonal workers to be able to enter this country for work. I think they are called work visa's. Many agricultural companies use them to get work done that others don't want to do. In essence it would be very easy to make it legal for some to come to the U.S. in a recorded and legal way in order to gain work. The excuse that I like not paying $5 for a head of lettuce is a cop out excuse for not having to face a problem that effects our sociological and economical health, lets face it, what someone making $4 an hour to pick lettuce or whatever saves us in doing the dirty work, we more than pay for in the Emergency Rooms, the transient aid, the educational costs of them or their children. They are putting a heavy strain on our infrastructure without aiding it's workability.

[thegamerslink]

And just in adding. There would be nothing wrong with an "Amnesty Bill" as long as that bill was stating...."We won't prosecute you for being an illegal alien as long as you leave now. We will even let you back in under work visa's and many other legal methods as long as you qualify i.e. have no criminal felony record don't have any terrorist ties etc....otherwise we will prosecute any and all illegal immigrants and assure that you are not allowed back under any visa programs for a minimum ## years"

[thegamerslink]

And knowing this argument will probably come up as well I'll cover it now....."what about the children?" Children of illegal immigrants that were born here while they were in an illegal status are U.S. citizens this is true. But just as when we were children when our parents moved, so did we. They can take their children with them and when they reach appropriate age if they wish them to be schooled in the U.S. then live on a border town and have an inter country program constructed to get these children enrolled and moved back and forth to border town schools. That would be one way to handle it. And there are countless others that are possible. Once the child became of age they could even sponsor their parents to come to the U.S. in a legal status.

The freedoms and luxuries this country offer are hard work in order to have and todays society has forgotten that for a large part. Those immigrants old and new that have worked through the system to be here or those that have served in the military both at times of war and peace know what is involved and how precious they are.(Not meaning you don't Alex) just part of my point :-)

[m42]

Pssst. Never apologize for speaking your mind. I do not offend so easily and will certainly respect your beliefs regardless of whether or not I agree with them.

Originally Posted by thegamerslink

...if a township or city refuses under whatever loophole to enforce federal law then they should be disallowed federal money or assistance.

As of 2007, this is already happening.

Originally Posted by thegamerslink

The excuse that I like not paying $5 for a head of lettuce is a cop out excuse for not having to face a problem that effects our sociological and economical health, lets face it, what someone making $4 an hour to pick lettuce or whatever saves us in doing the dirty work, we more than pay for in the Emergency Rooms, the transient aid, the educational costs of them or their children. They are putting a heavy strain on our infrastructure without aiding it's workability.

I don't believe it is a copout. I'm fiscaly conservative and socially liberal. There's no sense in my getting upset over it. I either choose to pay their expenses, or I do not.

I'm sorry this is so emotional for you. This is still a somewhat sketchy topic.

But I must honestly state that I've yet to encounter a study that conclusively finds illegal immigrants are costing the US economy more than they put into it.

I prefer to focus on the larger issues. If the system is being exploited, close the loopholes. Unlike deadbeat Americans who coast by on welfare with their 8 government funded kidlets, illegal immigrants actually put money into the economy. Is it enough? I don't know. Why single out a small subset of offenders? Why not instead fix the system so it cannot be exploited as easily?

[thegamerslink]

I don't know as it's a totally emotional issue as it is one that just like the deadbeat Americans. I have a hard time when there are so many people trying to do things the best they can and as right as they can get passed by by those that think they are either above or below the laws and processes.

Take for example.....I'm on disability, I have been since august of 2001....I'm not allowed to work as much as I fight for them to let me, and every day I am trying my best to try and figure out a way for me to make something near a living like I was before and not have to be on it....my wife works....our credit is no good because of when I lost my business and the low amount of income that we currently make. Then you have places like Bank of America, my bank unfortunately offering illegal aliens credit cards and accounts with out the need for social security numbers or background and credit checks, me even though I have banked there for 6+ years in good standing and have auto deposits can not get any credit from them. That to me is just fundamentally wrong as you are rewarding those that work outside the law or the system....

[m42]

1. Have you ever opened a foreign bank account? It's easier than you might think.
2. Are you familiar with what is currently happening in the financials markets because lenders granted subprime loans to people who either attempted to borrow against what they didn't have or simply didn't understand the terms of their loan agreements?

[thegamerslink]

Yeah banking institutions haven't been the most speckled cookie in the cookie jar lately. And I have to also say that those that have taken those loans are just as much to blame. I've never understood trying to live outside your means...and my last name is Jones so I don't have to worry about trying to keep up :-)

[John Scott]

Before thinking of immigration as validly illegal, we have to think about borders as valid. I have an ex-wife who illegally crossed the border into the US and has lived there for nearly two decades. I don't see what right they have to say "this is the US, this is Canada, and you can't cross this imaginary line".

I, on the other hand, illegally crossed the Sea of Japan in rubber boat to enter Japan (after being denied legal entry). And I feel I have just as much a right to be here as the next person. The earth doesn't belong to nations.

[Jacob34]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Before thinking of immigration as validly illegal, we have to think about borders as valid. I have an ex-wife who illegally crossed the border into the US and has lived there for nearly two decades. I don't see what right they have to say "this is the US, this is Canada, and you can't cross this imaginary line".

I, on the other hand, illegally crossed the Sea of Japan in rubber boat to enter Japan (after being denied legal entry). And I feel I have just as much a right to be here as the next person. The earth doesn't belong to nations.

Lol rubber boats? seems like they would not even make it a few miles

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by JacobBranch

Lol rubber boats? seems like they would not even make it a few miles

Yeah, I wasn't sure myself. But I was super bored with life and wanted to take the risk to feel "alive". I think it was about 9 feet long (3 meter). I put a 25 horsepower Yamaha outboard on it. Made it from Haeundae to Tsushima in 9 hours.

Then I spent 21 days in lock up, before I got a special permanent residence permit.

[Jacob34]

Wow I could not think what that would be like. you sound like a cool dude!

[John Scott]

Rubber boat looked like this.

[Jacob34]

Wow that has to take super skills to drive that small thing seems like if "any" water got in it it would just sink

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by JacobBranch

Wow that has to take super skills to drive that small thing seems like if "any" water got in it it would just sink

I actually got lost. I didn't have any skills. More like dumb luck or divine intervention that saved me.