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Franc Tireur 03-15-2009 08:33 PM

AIG Bonuses
 
AIG Faces Growing Wrath Over Payouts

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123715965204435363.html

Wow here we go again...450 millions dollars for bonuses

South 03-15-2009 09:32 PM

I'm not sure, but I think they were already contractually bound to those terms before the sky fell.

Zap 03-16-2009 05:40 AM

Aren't bonuses supposed to be performance based?
Was AIG, then, aiming for bankruptcy all along?

South 03-16-2009 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zap (Post 1052016)
Aren't bonuses supposed to be performance based?
Was AIG, then, aiming for bankruptcy all along?

I'm not sure. I'm following it as they release information but the contractual obligation angle is the one they're taking and the govt officials involved seem to acknowledge it as legitimate (while displaying faux outrage).

If there was in fact a legal obligation to pay these bonuses, the govt should be forced to explain why the bailout money was given. Surely they did at least enough research to understand the company's legal financial obligations before forking over so much money. If that's so then Barney Frank's public "outrage" makes him even more ridiculous to me than he was before.

Zap 03-16-2009 05:52 AM

The contractual obligation angle is a farce.
Deny them the bailout money and what happens to the contracts then???

The CEOs at AIG can not expect contracts to be upheld in these times.
All bets are off when you go to the taxpayer with your hand out.

South 03-16-2009 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zap (Post 1052028)
The contractual obligation angle is a farce.
Deny them the bailout money and what happens to the contracts then???

The CEOs at AIG can not expect contracts to be upheld in these times.
All bets are off when you go to the taxpayer with your hand out.

It may be a farce. Again, I don't know. I do know that if it is factual, then it's enforceable. A legal contract is a legal contract.

Had AIG been allowed to go into bankruptcy that would have handled this. Had those overseeing the bailout money not been asleep at the wheel, they could have forced AIG to renegotiate these contracts before distributing the money.

I expect that AIG deliberately withheld this and the govt did their typical half baked job of doing their job. Both are to blame.

I'm sorry, but this is what you can expect when the government gets itself involved in these things. I'd rather see the entire system fall and then rebuilt stronger than the current course.

Zap 03-16-2009 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South (Post 1052066)
I'm sorry, but this is what you can expect when the government gets itself involved in these things. I'd rather see the entire system fall and then rebuilt stronger than the current course.

I agree with you on that.
Let the chips fall where they may and the better run companies with solid business plans will be left standing in the end.

chaka42 03-16-2009 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South (Post 1052066)
I'm sorry, but this is what you can expect when the government gets itself involved in these things. I'd rather see the entire system fall and then rebuilt stronger than the current course.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I said this in another post, and I'll say it again, a democracy gives everyone the opportunity to succeed and to fail.

chaka42 03-16-2009 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zap (Post 1052028)
The contractual obligation angle is a farce.
Deny them the bailout money and what happens to the contracts then???

They've already received bailout money so their hands are tied now.

~kev~ 03-16-2009 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natural Elements (Post 1051669)
AIG Faces Growing Wrath Over Payouts

And who do I really blame? I blame the voters of this once great nation. aig can only do this because our elected officials were foolish enough to give them money.

If you voted democrat or republican, you have no right to complain. If you want real change (and not the obama type) both political parties have to be removed from office. This can only be done by voting third party.

This whole bail out hoax is designed to do two things - keep the people in debt, and give more power to big business.

The whole system is screwed up, this aig thing is just one example. There are so many problems with our government, and this aig is just one very small example.

And who is at the root of the problem? The voters.

Dont blame the people at aig, dont blame the elected officials - blame yourself for continuing to support a failed two party system. You have empowered the elected officials to empower aig. Its a cascade effect.

As for myself, I vote straight line Libertarian party.

Franc Tireur 03-16-2009 09:55 AM

Kev, I don't think Democrats or Republicans or Libertarian party have the right answers.

The whole system is broke down because it is business as usual, and nothing change deeply.

To answer your question, I don't vote because I am not a US citizen but I pay federal taxes like you in US. If I had the right to vote, I will vote for Ron Paul.

Anyway what a waste of money in bonuses paid by tax payers.

~kev~ 03-17-2009 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natural Elements (Post 1052424)
The whole system is broke down because it is business as usual, and nothing change deeply.


The people vote as usual, so its business as usual.

In a free enterprise system, it is not the governments job to bail companies out. If a company is too big to fail, then it needs to be broken up into small parts.

StrongInTheArm 03-18-2009 01:49 AM

It will be interesting to see what kind of bonuses these companies give out next year.

Zap 03-18-2009 07:22 AM

I've maxed out all of my credit cards, bought as many bad investments as I could, while selling off great assets at a reduced rate to friends and relatives, all the while as I robbed my neighbours and best customers of their hard earned tax dollars.

Can I have my bonus now?

Franc Tireur 03-18-2009 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~kev~ (Post 1053397)
The people vote as usual, so its business as usual.

In a free enterprise system, it is not the governments job to bail companies out. If a company is too big to fail, then it needs to be broken up into small parts.

Well I am for the free entreprise system, but I think it is necessary to find a way to stop injustice. The problem are bonuses under contracts and should be forbiden. I cannot imagine how a person can double or triple or else their salary in bonuses. I agree that companies need to motivate their employees, but not like it is and not when a company is helped by the government or in troubles.

Bonuses are not jackpots !

~kev~ 03-18-2009 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natural Elements (Post 1053844)
Well I am for the free entreprise system, but I think it is necessary to find a way to stop injustice. The problem are bonuses under contracts and should be forbiden. I cannot imagine how a person can double or triple or else their salary in bonuses. I agree that companies need to motivate their employees, but not like it is and not when a company is helped by the government or in troubles.

Bonuses are not jackpots !

That is up to the share holders of the company to stop, not the law makers.

If the head honcho of the company made poor decisions, he needs to be FIRED by the share holders.

chaka42 03-18-2009 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~kev~ (Post 1053899)
If the head honcho of the company made poor decisions, he needs to be FIRED by the share holders.

Well, considering that the government owns about 70% of the company, I don't think it's gonna happen. Government intervention has made this mess bigger than what it was already. You'd think they'd stop making things worse, but now they are calling for a refund of the bonuses or get taxed for it. That means they'd create a special tax for this. I don't know about you, but bonuses are already subject to tax. And, if they create a special tax for these creeps, who's to say they won't do it for other occasions.

searchbliss 03-18-2009 12:00 PM

AIG and greed...perfect together.

South 03-18-2009 12:35 PM

I just watched the panel on TV grandstanding making a TV showing of outrage. That same committee sitting there drilling Libby are the same ones who allowed the mess to happen.

There was language in the bailout bill that would have specifically dealt with the handling of bonuses. Bill Dodd had it specifically removed and replaced it with language that specifically allowed (hence legally required) for the bonuses to be paid. Now they see that America noticed and are angry, so they sit at scream at Libby about what THEY CAUSED. What a pathetic pony show.

Franc Tireur 03-18-2009 05:17 PM

I watched 60 minutes the other day and it was interesting http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4862191.shtml

What the Fed Chairman said is that those companies are too big to fail.

In my opinion it is a very dangerous game, and send the wrong message.

Have you ever ear this expression "responsible but not guilty"


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