Frame Sites

[samer]

what do you think about this:
Frame Sites
does that work? [/url]

[John Scott]

I've never dealt with frames. PhilC has, though.

[Fruit & Veg]

The key thing to remember is that spiders can't follow thenlinking structure in a framed site - this can be overcome easily though. Just add a footer of text links at the bottom of every content page - like at the bototm of this page. The spider can then follow these text links, especially if you have a site map page which has text links to every other page of your site.

That article is a long winding way of adding some JS to force the main frame to open, which is a good idea. Although he says 'The dynamic frameset does not need NOFRAMES content, since only browsers that support frames will ever be redirected here.' - I would add optimised content and links into the <noframes> area anyway. It may not be needed, but it will help the frameset page rank well.

Frame sites CAN be successful. The content page of a framed site ONLY has content - no logo, no navigation, nothing else. That's a prime page to rank well in the search engines.

[samer]

Thanks F&V , what do you think about this Phill ?

[PhilC]

The article is excellent. If my memory is correct it includes a method of pulling the framed site together AND placing the correct page in the main frame. I use the same method myself very effectively.

Google crawls frame sources so the NOFRAMES tag isn't needed for Google to find the framed pages, but it's an excellent place to put some optimized content, plus it's the place to put links to the frame sources pages for spiders that don't try to crawl frame sources.

[Johan007]

yeeeeseeeeeeees but no no no! When a SE spiders the pages and you go directly you loose the navigation:

eg:
http://www.webmarketingplus.co.uk/ex...content-1.html

I used to use a frame enforcer in JS that redirects you to the homepage:

[code:1:90900f20d6]
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
<!--
if (top == self) window.location.replace("/");
-->
</script>
[/code:1:90900f20d6]

but it does not solve the problem and you cant save pages to favorites etc.

The bottom line is if you have a content or shop (not a snazzy portfolio where frames is ok) YOU DONT NEED TO USE COMPEX FRAMES!

Most free webhosts and ALL paid for web hosting you can use PHP and so you can use simple server side includes. These are easyer to set up than frames and link to your navigation bar in a seprate file so if you add a new feature you can add it to your menu without changing every dam page (same goes for header, footer or banner!)

You sample.php page will have this code where you want your navigation in the HTML: (<tr><td> tags are just an example you will have to the simple html)


[code:1:90900f20d6]
.... <tr><td>

<?php
include("/includes/menu.htm")
?>

</td></tr>
<tr><td>

<?php
include("/includes/header.htm")
?>

</td></tr>...
[/code:1:90900f20d6]

Now you do 1 page called menu.htm (or any extention it dont matter) and stick your menu html in there.

You also create 1 page for your header and do the same.

Also you can do banners in a inlcude where you change 1 file to update all your page!!!! and also the footer and anything you want really!!!!

Piss easy and it much better than frames

(You can do this with any server side code)

Try never to duplicate code and keep you fonts and sizes in a sperate .css and JavaScript in .js file. [/u]

[PhilC]

Many people prefer not to use frames, but frames are often better than the alternatives. I use both on different sites. The problem with non-framed sites is that the left and top navigations scroll with the page, which isn't nice.

When a SE spiders the pages and you go directly you loose the navigation

You don't loose the navigation when the site is scripted to be pulled together with the required page in the main frame, but that was mentioned above.

[Johan007]

Originally Posted by PhilC

...frames are often better than the alternatives.

You don't loose the navigation when the site is scripted to be pulled together with the required page in the main frame, but that was mentioned above.

Really cool I will read it again - however! you have to have client side scripting on. Many Internet Cafe's and Education/Government networked PC's have em switched off. Frames and Scripting is slow. Frames can mess up your page view figures on stats if you dont know what your doing (giving you 3 times as many pages per view). Even though the middle page is loaded when u navigate most sites get 1.5 to 2.5 page views per user (non forum sites) so your bandwisth can be 3 times as much.

I am not saying that there is no place for frames cos there is and I use em to do some arty farty sites with cool scroll bar, it should NOT be an preached to others as an alternative cos it is bad practice and a waste of time when most web hosting come with PHP (or other server side coding). I think most coders would agree with me

[PhilC]

Pulling framed sites together with the required page in the main frame doesn't require anything from the serverside. It's all done with javascript.

Stats are what people make of them. If people want to boost their egos by counting hits, they can do. People who are interested in reality count visitor sessions or even unique visitors. For people who count hits, frames make their figures look better

Frames should be used as and when they are the best solution. I make a decent living from one framed site. I designed it in frames years ago. Since then, I've considered taking it out of frames but it just isn't suited to being non-framed, and many sites are like that. Many sites that are best suited to frames are designed out of frames for no apparent reason other than some people are against frames. To that, I say that nobody is against frames.

We wouldn't like it very much if the entire browser or Word program scrolled off up the screen every time we wanted to see the bottom. All sizable program are framed because it makes sense to design them that way. Websites are no different - if it makes sense to use frames, use them; if it doesn't make sense, don't use them.

[Johan007]

Originally Posted by PhilC

Pulling framed sites together with the required page in the main frame doesn't require anything from the serverside. It's all done with javascript.

- thats not good server side is far better and client side.

When I ment it effects stats it effects the number of page views cos for a 3 framed site you will get 4 page views.

[PhilC]

Why is serverside better? It has its advantages and disadvantages. As I said before, one big disadvantage with serverside is that the navbars scroll along with the rest of the page.

I know what you meant about the stats. I said that, if people want to count hits (lines in log files) to boost their ego, what difference does it make? Sensible people count visitor sessions or unique visitors.

[Johan007]

True if you want the nav bar to stay on the page fair enough. JavaScript dont work on all PC where server side will

As for UV they don’t mean much to me on its own... Page views per UV is more important because a good site will achieve about 2.5+ and a normal site would only get about 2 and a a poor site about 1.5 (this is for a non-forum non-eshop who should get more).

Advertisers want "Page Views" that gives a better indication of how good your site is and potential advertising space and success becuase many time a user will get to your site via SE take a look hate it and bugger off again.

[PhilC]

I guess it depends on what the stats are required for.

True - JavaScript doesn't work for absolutely everyone. On the other hand, serverside requires programming, which most people would have to pay for. There isn't any right or wrong about frames and serverside alternatives - if frames are suitable, use them - if not, don't use them. I use both frames and serverside compilation on different sites.

[MB5]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

I guess it depends on what the stats are required for.

True - JavaScript doesn't work for absolutely everyone. On the other hand, serverside requires programming, which most people would have to pay for. There isn't any right or wrong about frames and serverside alternatives - if frames are suitable, use them - if not, don't use them. I use both frames and serverside compilation on different sites.

so what is the script to make the frameset appear on a page that has been linked to from an external source?

[Johan007]

Why dig up this old post? Its very easy have a look on Google.

[MB5]

Originally Posted by Johan007

Why dig up this old post? Its very easy have a look on Google.

it was google that led me here. i found the easy way of simply redirecting. however, i want the source page of entry to be wrapped in the frameset. i found one site that has some explanations but they don't seem to work. i was hoping someone here could lend a hand.

[Johan007]

ok. Best ask in a non SEO forum. Try: http://www.v7n.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16