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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2005, 10:16 AM
John Scott's Avatar
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Greg Boser

When we started the SEO Contest, I knew there would always be a few people who would detract from it. There's always some oddball out there who wants to assign evil motives to anything done.

For this reason, when we announced the contest I included in the first post a statement that would make it clear that our requirement of a link to v7n was not in order to acquire search engine indexable links.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
We are not specifying the type of link - that's entirely at your discretion.
Later on, when a contestant asked which type of link we prefer, I replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
the link can be JavaScript. Or it can have a nofollow attribute. It just has to be human-clickable.
To most qualified SEO's, that would indicate that the contest was not requiring SE indexable links.

Unfortunately, this is the Internet, and few people actually read before they type, and one such fellow is Greg Boser. Greg failed to read even the first post in the SEO contest thread and promptly announced that I am doing the contest with the evil ulterior motive of duping hopeless webmasters into giving v7n thousands of search engine indexable links.

He has announced a counter offer:

webguerrilla.com/clueless/seo-contest

Now, remember, this is the SEO industry, and the SEO industry is held to a lower standard than most, so there are going to be many who neglect to even read the contest thread and make wildly inaccurate announcements, one of these being searchenginejournal.com's Loren Baker, who announced:
Quote:
v7n hopes to build its PageRank above its current ranking of 5
He also says:

Quote:
* incoming link PR trickles to its Seven Seek web directory, which may also benefit
* brings Seven Seek’s internal listings above the current PR 1 rankings
* which gives web publishers a reason to pay to list their sites in the directory
And also,

Quote:
Yikes, forced linking to enter a Google SEO contest which will pay the top site $1,000.


The fact is, the contest is a fun way of learning SEO, and we do not require SE indexable links. In fact, we have suggested from the beginning that contestants do not use SE indexable links.

Long story short, it is my opinion that Greg Poser is a contest troll. He is simply trying to hijack the publicity that the contest has created to give himself publicity.

He also did so in such a way as to prove himself willingly un-informed. Usually we do not cater to trolls, but in his case we must offer him thanks because he has generated even more publicity for our contest.

Thanks, Greg!
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:20 AM
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Well, the truth always reveals itself and, sometimes, people have to eat crow.

I'm sure we can scrape up a couple of plates of crow for any that are hungry for some.

And maybe a bottle of Old Crow for Atom... then we'll turn him lose on their blogs!!

That'll learn 'em!!

-Michael

Last edited by Michael Allison; 12-30-2005 at 10:26 AM.
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:27 AM
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I learned in 4th grade how to read something in its entirety and if I wasn't sure to ask for clarification.

It's a shame some people forget this simple method.
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:41 AM
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Yeah, I think the whole point is to see what will, and what won't, work with google's latest algorythm.

The fact that it's getting a shot in the arm from Greg is pure gravy.

You would think that someone would read the first post in this thread before running his mouth about the contest. But, hey, anybody can have a blog, right? There is no application process to test for common sense - you just set it up and start running your mouth! Easy as 1, 2, 3.

And to think, we went through the trouble of writing a press release for the contest! Publicity like this is, usually, fairly expensive. I don't think a press release could possibly do any more to get publicity than Greg's case of sour grapes has.

I know John already said this, but I want to chime in, too: Thanks, Greg!!



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Old 12-30-2005, 10:45 AM
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To tell you the truth i do not actually understand what all fuss is about. Even if you had mandated how the link should look like it's still your money and your content. Why you can not do what you want.

So no need to defend yourself here John. And if he (Greg Boser) is not paying attention to details it's his problem.
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:51 AM
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So do we require indexable links or what???














Sorry, you know my dark sense of humour, I just couldn't resist that.


I find it strange though as if you want to put a competition up on the forum, that's your choice. Why it should tick anyone off in this way is wierd. Especially as any SEO worth their weight should understand what a nofollow attribute is.


There is something good that will come out of this though. That is, it will show people what SEO's etc to go to for advice. But just in case, here's a clue.

The ones that can read and understand simple seo competition rules.

If they can't understand this, I would strongly suggest that people keep away as they are either having a laugh or a complete moron - take your pick.
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:52 AM
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Thanks Gevorg, Michael, Brian,

It just annoys me that this contest troll can go around with no regard to the truth suggesting that I'm trying to force people to hand over their PageRank, when I was the one who suggested that contestants use JavaScript or the nofollow attribute.

You'd think that Greg Boser would be more responsible about what he writes.
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Old 12-30-2005, 10:54 AM
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John,

There is nothing on the contest page that says contestants can use a no follow link for entering the contest. On the contrary, your *original*post states that “We are not specifying the type of link - that’s entirely at your discretion.”

Instead of blatantly saying that the contest entrant can slip a condom on their link, your sentence can refer to the text that is used in the link, image vs. text, image and text, redirect, opening in a new window, anchor text…. etc.

As an alternative to blasting the news post because I mention Bower’s contest in the same breath, you could atleast try and clear things up. Why even do so? Because you claim that the contest is an effort to educate publishers on the forms of SEO which are working with Google. Since education is the mission of the contest, then why not also educate your entrants that a specific no follow code can be used… instead of attacking me or my credibility.

By requiring a link back you are also raising the eyebrows of the search community to the consequences of entering your contest and becoming associated via link grouping with sites which may be involved in questionable manipulation of search inddexes in order to achieve such ranking. Even if a no follow is being used on the link itself, that link is still trackable by quality editors in the business, and still indexed by engines in some occasions.

I’m not blasting your contest in any way, just addressing a concern which you have brought upon the contest due to your requirements. Your link baiting method is smart, and will be monitored throughout the SEO community and by Google… Greg’s identification of the hole in your requirements and the concerns of such a linking campaign is just as valuable to not only our readers, but all practicioners of SEO.

Thanks,
Loren
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sej
John,

There is nothing on the contest page that says contestants can use a no follow link for entering the contest. On the contrary, your *original*post states that “We are not specifying the type of link - that’s entirely at your discretion.”

Loren, if you're going to write an article, at least read the thread. You would have seen me say:
Quote:
the link can be JavaScript. Or it can have a nofollow attribute. It just has to be human-clickable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sej
As an alternative to blasting the news post because I mention Bower’s contest in the same breath, you could atleast try and clear things up. Why even do so? Because you claim that the contest is an effort to educate publishers on the forms of SEO which are working with Google. Since education is the mission of the contest, then why not also educate your entrants that a specific no follow code can be used… instead of attacking me or my credibility.
Your credibility needs attacking. Did you contact me? Did you do any kind of research at all? Did you even read the whole thread or even just the whole first post?

You say we are doing this for PR? Huh. Then why would we suggest the use of non PR-passing links?

When you do not do research and write, you get yourself in a situation like this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sej
By requiring a link back you are also raising the eyebrows of the search community to the consequences of entering your contest and becoming associated via link grouping with sites which may be involved in questionable manipulation of search inddexes in order to achieve such ranking. Even if a no follow is being used on the link itself, that link is still trackable by quality editors in the business, and still indexed by engines in some occasions.
Loren, if anybody does not want to take part in the contest, they don't have to. We took part in the NU contest as a forum, and it was fun. We didn't mind the banner we had to put on the page, and no animals were killed in the course of the contest. You want to fabricate a story for your SEJ, go ahead. You need a bad guy for your story, so you chose me. Fine. But don't get upset when your credibility takes a walk. That was your choice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sej
I’m not blasting your contest in any way, just addressing a concern which you have brought upon the contest due to your requirements. Your link baiting method is smart, and will be monitored throughout the SEO community and by Google… Greg’s identification of the hole in your requirements and the concerns of such a linking campaign is just as valuable to not only our readers, but all practicioners of SEO.
You were not only blasting the contest, you were blasting me, you made thinly veiled threats to snitch to Matt Cutts, and you made thinly veiled threats against the status of any website linking to v7n or participating in the contest. Considering all that, I don't see you having a single iota of credibility, considering that you based it all on, in your own words, "forced linking to enter a Google SEO contest", which was inaccurate and untrue from the beginning.
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:11 AM
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Dude, point is that you should add that Java info to your main post to clear up the controversy.

I added that redirects can be used to the news post. Best of luck with the contest. Like I said, this is smart link baiting.

BTW, I don't appreciate your comment about me. If you're looking to add to your credibility or that of your contest, attacking someone for covering both your contest and that of Greg's is not the way to do it.

Shucks, if publishers play their cards right, someone may be able to launch two sites using two different SEO methods and win the grand prize and the follow up prize.
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sej
BTW, I don't appreciate your comment about me. If you're looking to add to your credibility or that of your contest, attacking someone for covering both your contest and that of Greg's is not the way to do it.
I didn't attack you for covering the contest. I attacked your credibility for inaccurately portraying me as the Anti-Christ.
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:26 AM
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Well, I posted this in Greg's blog. We'll see if it survives moderation.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, this new contest that passes PR to Matt’s blog will greatly benefit the SEO community by getting far more people to participate. How is it going to do that?

I’m sorry, I don’t see how that will benefit anyone but Matt. Did I miss something? I’m new to all this, so maybe I’m missing something somewhere.

From my perspective, here’s how it looks:

Greg got wind of this contest and checked it out, in his fashion. But, he didn’t read the rules that were clearly stated in the first post of the thread and he made a mistaken assumption. Then, he posted a counter-offer, of sorts, in what can only be described as a knee-jerk reaction. However, in the final analysis, his rules have more strings attached, so to speak, because I don’t see him saying that a no-follow is ok.

Besides that, It seems to me that anyone giving away prize money can stipulate whatever rules he or she wants. Why would anyone have a problem with that? After all, it’s their money and their contest. The fact that John isn’t after PR is irrelevant, really. Even if he was, who cares? Apparrently, Greg does. He cares so much and he’s so outraged that he decided he’d have his own little contest. But, being the benevolent guy that he is, he’s gonna give the PR to Matt, rather than just say that no links are required.

Huh?

If the link requirement is so offensive, then why have one, at all? And if going after PR, in the form of a contest like this is such bad form, why is it better to add PR to someone else’s page, rather than your own?

Seriously, I don’t get it.

Have I missed something somewhere? Please, fill me in, because I’m confused. From what I see, there is some pretty convoluted logic at work here.

To say that Greg is merely inconsistent would be generous.

By the way, Greg, I don’t know you, but I would think that an apology or an explanation to John is in order. He’s a personal friend of mine or I would have never posted here. He won’t say what I will, though, because he doesn’t want to make a scene.

I have no qualms with saying what should be said, myself, though.

None at all.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

No one gets to rake my friends' names through the mud without hearng from me, personally.

-Michael
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
Anti-Christ.
LOL... I do doubt you are the Anti-Christ John
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:50 AM
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Thanks. I'm not. But I do know him.
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks. I'm not. But I do know him.
*waves*

...
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:54 AM
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*Trembling* Hi Brian *Trembling*
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:08 PM
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*Trembling* Hi Brian *Trembling*
I'm not that scary, hahah. 6' 140.
I can run fast, that's it.
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:50 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong but with nearly $2000 in prize money couldn't John just buy all the PR passing links he wanted from other webmasters if that's what he's after?

Bottom line, a SEO contest is held for several reasons, FUN, Publicity, Community Participation, Learning from the experience, etc... It's SMART of John to take advantage of the publicity to introduce this wonderful forum to the webmaster community, it's *SMART* marketing. I for one am glad to have caught the SEO contest thread at another forum, it lead me here... and so far, I'm liking it.

The fact is that these other folks are trying to steal your thunder John. Instead of using their own wits and attracting visitors to their sites, they have resorted to the LOWEST tactics... trying to discredit you and draw people to their own sites. It's a shame but I guess it's something that's not going to go away.

Maybe next time they try and do some link building or a press release we should flame them for *shameless* PR building!

Not only am I going to link to v7n, I'm going to link to your other websites as well, an yes I WILL use good anchor text... maybe I'll even use *their* website's keywords to link to this post!
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:51 PM
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*Stands Up* I'm Spartacus

Doh, sorry wrong thread

Interesting read though I must say.

You post your own competition to win some cash with your rules, next thing articles start appearing everywhere telling you how to run your own competition.

I don't get it.
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zivkovicp
The fact is that these other folks are trying to steal your thunder John. Instead of using their own wits and attracting visitors to their sites, they have resorted to the LOWEST tactics... trying to discredit you and draw people to their own sites. It's a shame but I guess it's something that's not going to go away.

That's just how the Internet is. Somebody comes up with Google, and somebody else comes up with Google-Watch to leech some publicity. I created the v7n SEO Contest, and Greg wants to leech some publicity out of it. I could almost bet there's going to be somebody else to leech off of it even more. Wonder if v7nSEOContest.com is already taken?
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