SEO Pricing

John Scott · 07-25-2006, 06:47 AM

http://blog.v7n.com/2006/07/24/how-m...u-pay-for-seo/

Links to Randfish's quote:

Quote:

The full project would require ~7 months of effort, followed by 3 months of additional consultation and assistance with implementing ongoing ideas/projects. Cost would be ~$120,000, payable as follows:

* $20,000 down upon contract signing
* $15,000 after 45 days
* $15,000 upon launch of new site (ETA - 100 days)
* $10,000 per month thereafter

I think it's a bit high, but better high than low. A lot of folks ask me to consult, and I often never hear from them after I tell them that I don't even lok at the site without a $10,000 retainer. People think they can get good quality SEO for $300. That's just not going to happen, IMO.

**Rankenstein** · 07-25-2006, 07:05 AM

Like the blog says, it totally depends on the ROI. When I was at a web design company we had one client who grew with us, and we provided the site, SEO, online marketing etc.

Towards the end of the time I was with them, they were paying us £20,000 a month. OTOH, they were shifting over a 1,000 a month of their finance deals, just from online activities. And also giving us £150 per deal, on top of the £20k/month.

But the average finance deal was worth £6,000 to them over however many years. So that's £6 million per month, if you're taking the future income into account. They didn't see what they were paying as expensive at all, and I saw the owners go from struggling entrepreneurs to being worth 50-60 million each.

It all depends on the ROI, and their ROI was pretty damn good as you can see.

JuggoPop · 07-25-2006, 08:14 AM

I think it falls on the old saying "You get what you pay for"...

tork311 · 07-25-2006, 11:14 AM

I've almost given up trying to sell seo service. I get one to three per quarter, ($1500-$2500 range) most clients don't get it. I'm now focused on using seo to help myself stack the cheese. I think it's best to find someone with a good product and service that is willing to pay good margins.

Web Gazelle · 07-26-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

A lot of folks ask me to consult, and I often never hear from them after I tell them that I don't even lok at the site without a $10,000 retainer. People think they can get good quality SEO for $300. That's just not going to happen, IMO.

What about an SEO starting out and trying to establish a profolio? What do you think a person in that position should charge?

Webfu · 07-26-2006, 12:34 PM

The portfolio is a great idea. If you have a SEO portfolio to show clients they can see what you have done and won't be so in the dark as to what you do to position a client. Not to mention since they probably don't understand the whole process you can show them what you did to rank your featured clients.

tork311 · 07-26-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Web Gazelle

What about an SEO starting out and trying to establish a profolio? What do you think a person in that position should charge?

You have to look at what their product and services are(how much profit will they make), figure what your time is worth plus your expenses. What most people find is that when they realize all that is involved they become hesitant. The hardest this is going to be getting the control you will need to get the results they want. Sounds simple but trust me it's not.

Webfu · 07-26-2006, 05:13 PM

My rates definately slide based on the client and like you said " what their product and/or services are "

What would you charge for an hourly rate for consulting, starting out at what ?

$50.00, $65.00 or $100.00 - maybe more ?

Sharpseo · 07-26-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rankenstein

Like the blog says, it totally depends on the ROI.

It also depends on how well you can sell yourself. It takes some balls to tell a client that you charge as much as a good lawyer. Even if you're a great SEO, the sales/negotiation part of the job isn't easy for many.

I started out doing consulting, and the money was decent. But good clients can be hard to come by, and dealing with the frustrating and penny-pinching ones is tough.

The future got brighter once I decided to develop my own sites about a year and a half ago. No need to "sell" myself on the power and ROI of good SEO =) Consulting can be great up-front money, but recurring revenue is nice too.

Now I do some of each, just accepted a consulting gig 4 days a week. It's funny - the less I looked for SEO work, the more people found me.

clasione · 07-26-2006, 06:06 PM

It's funny, as time goes on seo becomes more difficult and much more expensive. Results in competitve markets can be nearly impossible unless you have a client who fully understands that to achive real results you need time and lots of money.

The more I developed my own sites the less interested I became in excepting client projects and I always stress that a client be fully aware of what really works and exactly what is involved for seo to actually become a successful strategy.

Nick · 07-26-2006, 09:58 PM

In my opinion, SEO is hit or miss. Any guarantees is like predicting the weather, which most of the time is a guesstimate.

The money can be spent elsewhere.

Webfu · 07-26-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

In my opinion, SEO is hit or miss. Any guarantees is like predicting the weather, which most of the time is a guesstimate.

The money can be spent elsewhere.

True, offering SEO and positioning is much like the job of a meteorologist, but at least you can guarantee instant traffic with paid ads in Adwords and Overture. If the client has a nice website that is user friendly you could even guarantee sales.

Aside from that Nick, I would hire you {hypothetically} if you could show me that 8 out of 10 of your clients where in the top 10 for their target keywords. All because of your swift ninja like SEO skills.

Nick · 07-26-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webfu

True, offering SEO and positioning is much like the job of a meteorologist, but at least you can guarantee instant traffic with paid ads in Adwords and Overture. If the client has a nice website that is user friendly you could even guarantee sales.

Aside from that Nick, I would hire you {hypothetically} if you could show me that 8 out of 10 of your clients where in the top 10 for their target keywords. All because of your swift ninja like SEO skills.

True that.

I believe paying for SEO is based off of impatience and unwillingness to learn. I can't believe people pay between $2,000 - $10,000 on the basic stuff (not saying everything is basic, but stuff that can be learned if researched).

But hey, that's why SEO guys are in business and I'm happy that most of them are making some good money

Webfu · 07-26-2006, 10:52 PM

Indeed, me to. I'm happy a lot of people are making money off SEO, Search Engines and Websites. It's good for the industry if you ask me. Even for the wicked black hatters.

However, if I was a business owner and sold real estate, skis, porn or cars I'd rather be golfing or surfing instead of learning anything about SEO. I'd have to admit my unwillingness to learn because I have so much freakin money I don't need to learn anything. And who cares if Im impatient because thats why I hired the SEO wizard.

As you said thats why SEO people are in business.

**Rankenstein** · 07-27-2006, 03:00 AM

Lot's of true comments in this thread.

For a new SEO starting out it is difficult. The only thing you can do is develop a track record, and on top of that you'll be in competition with guys who already have a good track record. Which means you'll have to be well up on SEO theory because, unless you've come out of the starting blocks like Carl Lewis, that's nearly you'll have to impress them with. You'll have to price yourself competitively. You'll probably have to settle for less control (like tork rightly said) and that means compromise, and that means worse results.

Control of the project is #1 IMO. My completely made up guesstimate is that half of black hat is done because the SEO in question couldn't do what they wanted on the main website. I even had Earl Grey ask me once (the only time I met him, actually, I'm not saying we're mates or anything) how the hell I managed to get to do SEO work on the actual sites themselves. It's because I worked for a web design company so when a company wanted SEO built in, we did that to my specs. So I already had design and copy to show to new pure-SEO clients. "Here's one I made earlier. Here's how it works, here's the ranks etc." I've seen Webfu has already got a start there, and I'm sure he'll go from strength to strength too. That's the sort of thing you need to point to.

The important thing to note when I talk about the results I've achieved, it's a direct consequence of being able to work on corporate sites, designing and creating pages for them, writing the copy for them, and they then host the pages. Leap of faith for them. Vital for me.

Nick's right too. My advice to any company right from the beginning is that if they can get someone in-house to do SEO, that's their best bet. If they are prepared to wait 2-3 months, doing nothing, for one of their guys to get up to speed on SEO, well, that's how I started too.

Pricing for a new SEO: Only you can decide on the pricing. Never undersell yourself. Never price yourself out of your market. Do jobs that you know you will rank for easily, even it it means the job is shorter and you are charging less. Hopefully you will find a company with whom you can grow, as well as them.

Remember those guys paying laughing money in my first post in this thread? Believe it or not they were also my very first SEO job ever, after all those months of reading I put in, and the money they ended up paying was a reflection of years of trust.

nigelaxis · 07-27-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rankenstein

....... the money they ended up paying was a reflection of years of trust.

This is the best comment on this thread for me.

An SEO client is a bit like an acorn that with the help of SEO could become a mighty oak! Remember the client does not understand the work required for SEO and needs educating. But if you put in the time and work with them gradually and have faith that your work will make their business flourish then your fees will grow.....just like Rankenstein.

tork311 · 07-27-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webfu

My rates definately slide based on the client and like you said " what their product and/or services are "

What would you charge for an hourly rate for consulting, starting out at what ?

$50.00, $65.00 or $100.00 - maybe more ?

Defiantly more, when you look at all the time you have to put in just to generate the lead, the time you have to spend on the phone or in person selling yes you should get high rates. Especially if your good and have a track record. For SEO I charge by the complete job but when you break it down per hour, itâ€™s $250-$500 per hour. The problem you will run into and I see this all the time is that most clients web sites suck and do not convert into sales or leads, but that is a whole other story. I do take on SEO clients (for me itâ€™s fun) but my personal experience it is just not worth the effort SEOing for others when you can do it for yourself and make a whole lot more money.

Webfu · 07-28-2006, 01:08 AM

I know this is getting to be a lot to read so I'll cut to the chase....
SEO Pricing. Sure maybe Im slutty, some might even call me cheap but here goes:

$65.00hr consulting - includes site mods, re-wording & phone time

$15.00 for each directory I submit your website to. PR doesnt matter because I bring you quality and my results are proven with the track record.

$20.00-$1000.00 a month for tracking and I'm a reseller so I get half of that.

$65.00hr to build out your landing pages, link them together and build a sitemap

---- Most clients I meet only want to spend $300.00 a month for link building so thats where we make most of our money. Maybe its cheap, but its easy to sell our services using these prices so it keeps the pay checks coming in.

Honestly I consider us lucky to get the jobs we do get. There are so many people offering SEO these days worldwide and the portland seo market is saturated with some decent talent. There are far fewer Patrick Gavins, Bruce Clays and John Scotts and sure it may be easier for them to turn their head at 5 grand but for us thats a big deal.

Thanks Tork311... I appreciate your honest opinion.

Fortunately I don't have to sell myself and generate leads. Most of our leads come from client referrals, friends or from Google with people doing local searches for things like portland web design or portland search engine optimization. Then when I am on the phone {consulting} that breaks down to my hourly which for most clients is $