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  #1  
Old 07-16-2007, 02:59 PM
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johnegood johnegood is offline
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Analytically - Can new pages hurt?

"Does adding new content without links....."I

'd like to take this question towards the mathematical and away from the simplistic "go get some links".....

Assume that I have a 5 page site on widgets. Each page talks about different widgets. Say A Widgets, B widgets... right up to the 5th letter. But all my links come into my home page which is the A widget page.

If I add a sixth page but without adding any links, does that hurt my positioning on google for B Widgets?

Or, does adding new pages, while keeping the link count constant, mathematically reduce the PageRank (in the truest sense of the word) of my existing pages?

I've read extensively on this point and have learned about dampeners and matrices and such but nobody seems to deal with this question directly.

The math suggests that the page rank from the total links in cannot be used over and over again for any given number of (even relevant) keywords.

But then, why doesn't anyone discuss how to optimize from this question of having the optimal amount of content for the incoming links?

In my case, this is an academic but puzzling case since I am busy adding content (quality) and links as fast as I can to: Time4Learning.com
 
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2007, 08:25 PM
adamx8 adamx8 is offline
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In basic I would suggest the answer to be no. For instance on my one site I have about 2K pages. Well only a few have pr which is mostly passed on from the index page. However the index page's pr is enough to assist in making all other 1999 pages rank extremely high (like #1 in most cases). Do the other pages need links, well that could be a matter of niche, but since we are not talking niche my answer would remain no. I don't link about 1995 pages of my site to anywhere else, but yet I rank high without pr on the majority because my initial page carries "weight of credibility" for my site.
 
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:44 PM
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tdd1984 tdd1984 is offline
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hmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnedelson View Post
"Does adding new content without links....."I

'd like to take this question towards the mathematical and away from the simplistic "go get some links".....

Assume that I have a 5 page site on widgets. Each page talks about different widgets. Say A Widgets, B widgets... right up to the 5th letter. But all my links come into my home page which is the A widget page.

If I add a sixth page but without adding any links, does that hurt my positioning on google for B Widgets?

Or, does adding new pages, while keeping the link count constant, mathematically reduce the PageRank (in the truest sense of the word) of my existing pages?

I've read extensively on this point and have learned about dampeners and matrices and such but nobody seems to deal with this question directly.

The math suggests that the page rank from the total links in cannot be used over and over again for any given number of (even relevant) keywords.

But then, why doesn't anyone discuss how to optimize from this question of having the optimal amount of content for the incoming links?

In my case, this is an academic but puzzling case since I am busy adding content (quality) and links as fast as I can to: Time4Learning.com

you kind of confused me, but you should be okay. I wouldn't worry about it to much people say you lose page rank from page rank bleed, but I don't think thats true, but I do know you can lose page rank to your inner pages by have too many inner pages which that could be true of course cause page rank flows


Its a decimal number thats divides its self through out the pages
 
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:15 AM
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I'll try again. I'm trying to understand the underlying principle or algorithm. Please ONLY respond if you have insight into how the concept actually works.

Say I have a site with one page on widgets A. The page has a google pagerank of x.
If I hold the number of links constant but I add a new page, on widgets B, will the original page's pagerank of x go down?

I've asked this question a few times but have yet to find an answer in terms of the underlying algorithms.
 
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:38 AM
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Obelia Obelia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnedelson View Post
I'll try again. I'm trying to understand the underlying principle or algorithm. Please ONLY respond if you have insight into how the concept actually works.

Say I have a site with one page on widgets A. The page has a google pagerank of x.
If I hold the number of links constant but I add a new page, on widgets B, will the original page's pagerank of x go down?

I've asked this question a few times but have yet to find an answer in terms of the underlying algorithms.
This is because no employees of Google are going to post those details of the algo. Believe me, every SEO wants to know the answer to these questions. We all have theories, we can all do experiments and see what works in practice, but accurate answers are not out there because toolbar PR is both outdated and approximate.

When you combine an approximate value of PR with the fact it's on a logarithmic scale, judging anything becomes impossible. Even if a PR of 4 seems solid and fairly constant, you can't say the same of the PR supporting its inbound links: it could be fluctuating behind the scenes from 3.5 to 4.5.
 
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:20 AM
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Johan007 Johan007 is offline
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Hi John,

Mathematically new pages will lessen the page rank given to the rest of your pages (otherwise we will all be piggy backing of high ranking sites). However there is nothing to be gained by not adding useful pages that potentially do much good.

Important also to know that a page may also rank independently of site page rank flow becuase it will be linked my a range of external sites giving unique class C IP's links that are more powerful.

Last edited by Johan007; 07-17-2007 at 07:32 AM.
 
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:41 PM
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I know this is a frustratingly hard topic and that those truly in the know are not talking. All the same, the original papers by Page & Brin - The PageRank Citation Ranking: Bringing Order to the Web, published January 29, 1998, are available.

I've tried to sort thru them and the summaries of them.

I more or less understand Markov Chains, recursive functions, transition matrices, state vectors, dampening effects and the rest of what they speak. Nevertheless, they seem to only talk about "web sites" without giving much insight into issues like:
- pages
- subdomains

Obviously, there must be some reason to not keep adding content since original content is relatively cheap.

Has anyone seen, or can anyone contribute anything, which is insightful in this are?
 
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:41 PM
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Johann: I agree that: Mathematically new pages will lessen the page rank given to the rest of your pages (otherwise we will all be piggy backing of high ranking sites).

But that seems the opposite of saying: However there is nothing to be gained by not adding useful pages that potentially do much good.

Because, it's possible that the new pages hurt the competitiveness of exisitng pages.....
 
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2007, 01:42 PM
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And yes, the visible page rank bar is not worth mentioning in this context
 
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