What Defines An SEO Expert? - Page 2

scorpionagency · 10-07-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish Pandey

I totally agree with you John!

@scorpion: Well for a few newbies who are yet to make a mark in the industry, they work for clients first before moving on to their own projects!

Right, I am referring to true experts, not newbies though..

businessservicesuk · 10-08-2007, 12:21 AM

The best rule of thumb in the SEO game is simply, where does your website rank, as John stated.

How can your expertise in SEO be measured any other way?

redeemer_spawn · 10-08-2007, 09:01 AM

An SEO expert should be flexible., that no matter what comes on the way, it can still able to ranked the site at the higher position.,

**Rankenstein** · 10-08-2007, 09:44 AM

I've got to go with ranking. Hence my screen name.

Currently I have on Google UK no. 5 for UK holidays (no. 8 on .com from where I'm sat) and no. 8 for organic seo. I've had no. 1s for several very competitive one-worders before. As far as ranks go I believe I can measure my track record against almost any other SEO in the world.

Money? I've had people paying £20,000 a month for SEO - but then I saw the owners of that site go from being worth nothing to being worth £60m each, over the space of 4 years. I suppose you'd call that fee a reward then.

Prestige? I've lectured to the UK Government's Department of Trade and Industry on SEO. Done SEO for Bayern Munich, Benetton F1, Juventus blah blah.

I've never done SEO for myself, because the bottom line is that I'm not very interested in money. I'm fortunate, very fortunate, not to have to worry too much about my future. And that's nothing to do with any money I've made from SEO. The fact is I haven't made that much - and I've been stitched up on deals too. Probably been diddled out of £100,000 overall - by so-called friends. But then I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that when you shake hands on a deal, you've done a deal, so maybe I deserve it.

The answer to what makes an SEO expert has to be ranking well on Google. The money, and the prestige, and the top clients mean nothing whatsoever if you can't get the ranks. And I am definitely NOT a guru. The idea makes me laugh, there are plenty more knowledgeable than me about SEO. I'm confident I can get the job done though, I think that counts for a lot.

scorpionagency · 10-08-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rankenstein

I've got to go with ranking. Hence my screen name.

Currently I have on Google UK no. 5 for UK holidays (no. 8 on .com from where I'm sat) and no. 8 for organic seo. I've had no. 1s for several very competitive one-worders before. As far as ranks go I believe I can measure my track record against almost any other SEO in the world.

Money? I've had people paying £20,000 a month for SEO - but then I saw the owners of that site go from being worth nothing to being worth £60m each, over the space of 4 years. I suppose you'd call that fee a reward then.

Prestige? I've lectured to the UK Government's Department of Trade and Industry on SEO. Done SEO for Bayern Munich, Benetton F1, Juventus blah blah.

I've never done SEO for myself, because the bottom line is that I'm not very interested in money. I'm fortunate, very fortunate, not to have to worry too much about my future. And that's nothing to do with any money I've made from SEO. The fact is I haven't made that much - and I've been stitched up on deals too. Probably been diddled out of £100,000 overall - by so-called friends. But then I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that when you shake hands on a deal, you've done a deal, so maybe I deserve it.

The answer to what makes an SEO expert has to be ranking well on Google. The money, and the prestige, and the top clients mean nothing whatsoever if you can't get the ranks. And I am definitely NOT a guru. The idea makes me laugh, there are plenty more knowledgeable than me about SEO. I'm confident I can get the job done though, I think that counts for a lot.

Interesting, so your more comfortable making the (Horn tooting) £20,000 a month rather than the 4 yr. £60m doing it for yourself? Or was that a Plug to acquire more clients?

I agree that ranking may play a roll to those that are rank checkers (High Majority). I find the purpose of SEO is more geared towards Traffic Vs. Conversions though (Which has nothing to do with rank). In this case simple success rates.

I have seen sites converting over $100,000.00 a month in revenues & sit as at pr-2, Only 135 inbound links, page 2 of google for a non competitive term & maybe page one for a long tail.

Then I have seen sites converting $500.00 a month in revenues & site at a pr-7, 4,678 inbound links, page 1 of google for a few decent terms bringing in 1,000+ unique visits a day each, & a few long tail terms.

As you can see in these cases, the RANKS are deceiving & don't reflect the Conversions, which is the whole point of being in business!

This is why I find that most self proclaimed Experts are just that, "SELF Proclaimed" & that the Real experts use their talents to generate 100% profits for them self & their businesses - I say businesses because most have more than one business project going that THEY own & draw 100% revenues from every month.

True experts are called an expert by those that have witnessed their talents in action. They are not those that wake up one morning and say to them self, hmmm, I have been doing this for a while & have a few clients that pay me every month, therefor I MUST be an expert, I think i will use that to advertise my services with...

Expert & Guru are 2 of those BUZZ words used in all different forms of Marketing & Advertising as a psychological authoritarian manipulation tactic.

I think the biggest issue is that they have been used SO MUCH that it's now like the little boy who cried wolf every time we see it. Just hard to believe anymore!

Anyways, just my opinion, But who am I compared to the Millions that may say different? I'm just me.....

I wish you all the best..

**Rankenstein** · 10-09-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpionagency

Interesting, so your more comfortable making the (Horn tooting) £20,000 a month rather than the 4 yr. £60m doing it for yourself? Or was that a Plug to acquire more clients?

No, who am I going to get £20,000 a month off? Those clients don't grow on trees. I wasn't making that dough all for myself, that's what they were billed. As I said, that was reward money and the amount they were paying reflected the value of perhaps three or four sales a month to them, and with my help they were making 1100 sales a month - though I'd put down half that number as being directly due to me.

And maybe I am tooting my own horn a bit, but more to show that if it comes to knowing who is and isn't an SEO expert, I'd have a better idea than most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpionagency

I agree that ranking may play a roll to those that are rank checkers (High Majority). I find the purpose of SEO is more geared towards Traffic Vs. Conversions though (Which has nothing to do with rank). In this case simple success rates.

I have seen sites converting over $100,000.00 a month in revenues & sit as at pr-2, Only 135 inbound links, page 2 of google for a non competitive term & maybe page one for a long tail.

Then I have seen sites converting $500.00 a month in revenues & site at a pr-7, 4,678 inbound links, page 1 of google for a few decent terms bringing in 1,000+ unique visits a day each, & a few long tail terms.

As you can see in these cases, the RANKS are deceiving & don't reflect the Conversions, which is the whole point of being in business!

That's marketing, not SEO. I find a lot of people want SEO professionals to be marketing professionals too, and it's much better for all concerned if they are, but marketing and SEO are different disciplines.

One art gallery client I had wanted to rank well for all the different painters and paintings they had - they weren't bothered about sales or their shop, they just wanted to 'own' the ranks for the painters and paintings and thus gain loads of visibility. They called me to do this seo job for them, and they didn't need a marketer.

SEO is most definitely about the ranks, what happens when you get the traffic to the site is an entirely different discipline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpionagency

This is why I find that most self proclaimed Experts are just that, "SELF Proclaimed" & that the Real experts use their talents to generate 100% profits for them self & their businesses - I say businesses because most have more than one business project going that THEY own & draw 100% revenues from every month.

So unless they chase money or own a business, they can't be SEO experts? Completely untrue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpionagency

True experts are called an expert by those that have witnessed their talents in action. They are not those that wake up one morning and say to them self, hmmm, I have been doing this for a while & have a few clients that pay me every month, therefor I MUST be an expert, I think i will use that to advertise my services with...

Expert & Guru are 2 of those BUZZ words used in all different forms of Marketing & Advertising as a psychological authoritarian manipulation tactic.
I think the biggest issue is that they have been used SO MUCH that it's now like the little boy who cried wolf every time we see it. Just hard to believe anymore!

Totally agree with that though. In my experience, it's the self-proclaimed experts and gurus who are anything but experts. I've worked for one - what a laugh that was! Complete lack of basic knowledge.

So, I don't want to argue with you, we both agree that the empty vessels make the most noise, and that traffic is pointless without conversions - we just disagree on the SEO job description.

All the best!

**John Scott** · 10-09-2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rankenstein

That's marketing, not SEO. I find a lot of people want SEO professionals to be marketing professionals too, and it's much better for all concerned if they are, but marketing and SEO are different disciplines.

Pet peeve of mine. People thinking that SEO is marketing, or that an SEO knows marketing. Some might, but marketing is a much more broad and complicated a discipline than SEO. SEO is more technical a discipline than marketing. Asking an SEO do talk about marketing is like asking a roofing contractor to talk about plumbing, and vice versa.

scorpionagency · 10-09-2007, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Rankenstein: That's marketing, not SEO. I find a lot of people want SEO professionals to be marketing professionals too, and it's much better for all concerned if they are, but marketing and SEO are different disciplines.

1st - Please tell me you typed that wrong? do you know what SEM stands for? heres a hint -Search Engine Marketing - Ok, Now, do you know what one of the Primary Sub-Categories to SEM is? Another Hint - Search Engine Optimization-
Seeing that SEO is indeed a part of SEM, would that only conclude that SEO is also a form of Marketing? (meaning that saying SEO has NOTHING to do with marketing is simply closed minded)

Quote:

Rankenstein: Money? I've had people paying £20,000 a month for SEO

2nd - you said it not me, I just commented on you saying you made that much a month...

Quote:

Rankenstein: So unless they chase money or own a business, they can't be SEO experts? Completely untrue.

3rd - I said "MOST", not all, if you took it personal then - If the shoes fit, wear them -.

Ok, why do people perform SEO Consulting? answer = To make Money!

So if it's to make money & they were that good at it, why wouldn't they do it for them self to make 100% profits Vs. the 20%-35% investing the same amount of time for someone else to make less money?

You never answered that one....

I'm still curious as to why you are so focused on trying to prove yourself.... I think you are trying to hard... Relax a bit and take a deep breath before answering this post. I want to make sure you are calm & focused when retorting this time.

I never challenged your ability on a personal level I am merely debating what some Think an expert is. You shouldn't take it so personal - it's bad for the blood pressure -

businessservicesuk · 10-09-2007, 02:11 AM

SEO and Marketing come close together in the link building process, apart from that they are separate entities.

Tanya · 10-09-2007, 02:13 AM

Honestly? I think SEO's that keep their mouths shut and let the PR and traffic do the talking are the real experts, don't ya think?

scorpionagency · 10-09-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanya

Honestly? I think SEO's that keep their mouths shut and let the PR and traffic do the talking are the real experts, don't ya think?

I would have to agree.. the more most talk the less credible they become.. kinda like the SEO's that preach PageRank to clients.. Thats just too funny..

scorpionagency · 10-09-2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by businessservicesuk

SEO and Marketing come close together in the link building process, apart from that they are separate entities.

From websters Dictionary:

Main Entry: Marketing
mar·ket·ing Listen to the pronunciation of marketing
Pronunciation:
\ˈmär-kə-tiŋ\
Function:
noun
Date:
1561

1 a: the act or process of selling or purchasing in a market b: the process or technique of promoting, selling, and distributing a product or service

2: an aggregate of functions involved in moving goods from producer to consumer

Umm, isn't that why we Use SEO techniques? So, wouldn't you think it marketing has more to do with SEO than simply coming close together with link building?

**John Scott** · 10-09-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpionagency

1st - Please tell me you typed that wrong? do you know what SEM stands for? heres a hint -Search Engine Marketing - Ok, Now, do you know what one of the Primary Sub-Categories to SEM is? Another Hint - Search Engine Optimization

SEM has very little in common with marketing.

businessservicesuk · 10-09-2007, 02:31 AM

Scorp I will not reply to your post as you seem in an agitated mood, possibly down to your wife's monthly cycle than anything posted on here.

The only reason there is need of SEO services is simply down to web designers not providing clients with a sound platform.

In regards to marketing, the difficulty as always is providing the right type of visitors, so conversion rates improve and steadily grow.

scorpionagency · 10-09-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Scott

SEM has very little in common with marketing.

Hmm, thats debatable... Even if it was minimal.. seeing that SEM/SEO & Marketing (In description/Definition) seem to have the same Goal, I personally have to lean towards a combined effort (Thus relation).

I am but one individual, with an Opinionated likeness about me.. I "might" be wrong more than I am right.

This time I have to stick with my guns though, I feel strong about this topic. (Again, just me I suppose).

**John Scott** · 10-09-2007, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpionagency

From websters Dictionary:

Main Entry: Marketing
mar·ket·ing Listen to the pronunciation of marketing
Pronunciation:
\ˈmär-kə-tiŋ\
Function:
noun
Date:
1561

1 a: the act or process of selling or purchasing in a market b: the process or technique of promoting, selling, and distributing a product or service

2: an aggregate of functions involved in moving goods from producer to consumer

Umm, isn't that why we Use SEO techniques? So, wouldn't yopu think it marketing has more to do with SEO than simply coming close together with link building?

Yes, SEO is a discipline within marketing. It is by no means or stretch of the imagination coextensive with SEO.