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  #641 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
This is true there is no such thing as set and forget. If you set and forget that page eventually will fall in the rankings no matter how well optimized it is. I have sites that have not been touched in years but still say a PR 2 and Alexa rank of 600,000 (I only checked for the purpose of posting this otherwise I would not waste my time checking).

The site even though it has a PR 2 and an Alexa rank, it has no indexes because it has been ignored for years. According to the copyright I have on it (which would be the last time I edited it) the last date I touched the site was in 2008. Point being is you can set and forget it but so will the search engines.

As for bounce rate, again as I said it is a worthless metric far too many people waste far too much time on. There are so many factors involved with a bounce rate that nobody can honestly say what their exact bounce rate is.
There is a set it and forget it. Its called building a page that has rich content that everyone naturally links to. I have a few pages like this and I have not changed anything on them in over 8 month. However, my ranking are all consistently climbing the SERP... Im not kidding im number one for highly competitive national keywords.

Its just like you said earlier, you have to give Google what they want.

I recently walked into an SEO company (my current job) and after analyzing the companies site. I realized the content was poor, the pages are too busy. No variations of keywords, bounce rate is high on every page 60 and up. IMO this is terrible.

"People who build sites just to rank never do. People who build sites for people do. "Donnie Strompf...lol

No matter what page a user is on, if you can give him more value something else to look at (For a lower bounce rate click here!), bookmark, or share. Google will like it. Even if Google can only use GA to track links, they are still keeping track of them, correct?

Heres how I plan on improving the site and its bounce rate on some important keyword targeted pages.

I hire a professional engineer for that specific field to create content. After the content is completed I send it to a professional writer. They spice it up for me and turn it into converting text. Add some pretty pictures, add some good links that the reader will most likely also be interested in (giving my potential customers more value and reducing my page rank! WIN WIN ).
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Last edited by Donnie; 04-19-2012 at 07:39 AM.
 
  #642 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
"Bounce Rates

I’m sure all webmasters reading this will have analytics of some sort set up on their website, and if you don’t then I suggest it’s the first thing you do after reading this. Not only because it is important for you to understand how users are using your website but also because search engines can track if users immediately bounce back to result pages from your website for a given search query.

This phenomenon is known as ‘pogosticking’. Generally speaking, if the user returns to the search engine to find another result or search a similar query, then this indicates that user did not find the content they were looking for originally."
from: http:// (remove space) www (remove space) .seomoz.org/ugc/dear-google-bing-help-me-rank-better-sxsw-2012-review


Wow this post had some excellent timing. I think this clarifies everything for me!

What do you think about this Deepsand? Please respond in regular English
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Last edited by HTMLBasicTutor; 04-19-2012 at 11:08 AM.
 
  #643 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:36 AM
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Search engines can only track what goes on inside my site if I install their god aweful stats code. I have no use for their stats code because my own server stats tells me everything including things they can't.

Now before it is said let me state that most do not use a "back" button. Most people naturally open a new tab. They search for something and open a new tab so they can see if that site is for them and if not they close and open another new tab.

I did not read the post you linked to because I wasted my time yesterday reading someone elses "opinion" based upon no facts and even they said they could not track the results.

If my competition wants to waste every waking hour on stats, measuring, and trying to figure out why joe does not like the color blue - Then more power to them. Matter fact I thank them for wasting all their time trying to figure out the human minds of millions of people.

This makes my job a great deal easier because while they are spending day and night trying to figure out pandora's box, I will be marketing my website.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
Quote:
"Bounce Rates

I’m sure all webmasters reading this will have analytics of some sort set up on their website, and if you don’t then I suggest it’s the first thing you do after reading this. Not only because it is important for you to understand how users are using your website but also because search engines can track if users immediately bounce back to result pages from your website for a given search query.

This phenomenon is known as ‘pogosticking’. Generally speaking, if the user returns to the search engine to find another result or search a similar query, then this indicates that user did not find the content they were looking for originally."

from: http:// (remove space) www (remove space) .seomoz.org/ugc/dear-google-bing-help-me-rank-better-sxsw-2012-review


Wow this post had some excellent timing. I think this clarifies everything for me!

What do you think about this Deepsand? Please respond in regular English
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Last edited by HTMLBasicTutor; 04-19-2012 at 11:08 AM.
 
  #644 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
Now before it is said let me state that most do not use a "back" button. Most people naturally open a new tab. They search for something and open a new tab so they can see if that site is for them and if not they close and open another new tab.
Got something to back that statement up? 'Cause I don't fit your blanket statement.

I actually find it a PIA when you guys want to open links new tabs/windows on me because I have a popup blocker.
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  #645 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
Search engines can only track what goes on inside my site if I install their god aweful stats code. I have no use for their stats code because my own server stats tells me everything including things they can't.
Please provide a source, I have provided sources for all my statements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
Now before it is said let me state that most do not use a "back" button. Most people naturally open a new tab. They search for something and open a new tab so they can see if that site is for them and if not they close and open another new tab.
This is a matter of opinion and IMO people use the back button more then a new tab when browsing a SERP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
I did not read the post you linked to because I wasted my time yesterday reading someone else's "opinion" based upon no facts and even they said they could not track the results.
Everything is opinionated. However, SEOmoz does not publish wrong information on their blog. Only in a Q & A. That link is pointing at a blog article that was reviewed by SEOmoz prior to allowing it on their site. Have you ever tried to get SEOmoz to publish one of your articles? not easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
If my competition wants to waste every waking hour on stats, measuring, and trying to figure out why joe does not like the color blue - Then more power to them. Matter fact I thank them for wasting all their time trying to figure out the human minds of millions of people.
What if your competition is out ranking you because they are working on getting everyone to love their pages more then yours?

If I was marketing to a child I would make a playful site, because I want to please my demographic. My demographic needs to learn more about my product. My demographic needs to buy from me in order for me to live. If my demographic loves my pages because I spent time on them, Google will love them to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
This makes my job a great deal easier because while they are spending day and night trying to figure out pandora's box, I will be marketing my website.
The point I am trying to make is when a user is not happy with a page Google will not be either. The intension of this entire post is whether or not we can use a bounce rate to improve our rankings. I gave more then enough proof to validate that it does. Yes these are peoples opinions, however they are all professionals and im getting these opinions from many people.

If you "still" think you are correct please leave a comment on his thread stating that "bounce rate is useless" and we will see the feedback you get from 100s of SEO Professionals.
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  #646 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
Search engines can only track what goes on inside my site if I install their god aweful stats code.
Don't agree with this. With all the personalization and ignorance amongst web surfers about how much spying the search engines and other sites do they can easily surmise (correctly or incorrectly) what your actions were when visiting a site.
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  #647 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:15 AM
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Oh so you browse with 1 tab open ??? I think not

I have nothing to back it up except for after have training classes with other 5,000 people for over 3 years I have learned how many do use tabs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
Got something to back that statement up? 'Cause I don't fit your blanket statement.

I actually find it a PIA when you guys want to open links new tabs/windows on me because I have a popup blocker.
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  #648 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
Oh so you browse with 1 tab open ??? I think not
Actually, I do when looking at search results.
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  #649 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
Actually, I do when looking at search results.
And I do too

In fact I have many many tabs open. However, when I start a search within a SERP and what I am looking for is not on the clicked result I go back to the SERP and try again.
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  #650 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:24 AM
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I do not have to provide any source for a search engine not knowing what goes on inside my site. There is no 3rd party that can track everything that goes on in a site unless they have access to raw server logs, which they don't. This is fact and no source is needed for that.

As for bounce rate I already pretty much stated it is useless. If seo professionals disagree with that then they are entitled to their opinion. As for demographic, there are certain things that need to be checked and tested but I personally think people waste far too much time on too many trivial things.

Nowhere have I said not to test, not to tweak, not to learn...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
Please provide a source, I have provided sources for all my statements.
This is a matter of opinion and IMO people use the back button more then a new tab when browsing a SERP.
Everything is opinionated. However, SEOmoz does not publish wrong information on their blog. Only in a Q & A. That link is pointing at a blog article that was reviewed by SEOmoz prior to allowing it on their site. Have you ever tried to get SEOmoz to publish one of your articles? not easy.


What if your competition is out ranking you because they are working on getting everyone to love their pages more then yours?

If I was marketing to a child I would make a playful site, because I want to please my demographic. My demographic needs to learn more about my product. My demographic needs to buy from me in order for me to live. If my demographic loves my pages because I spent time on them, Google will love them to.
The point I am trying to make is when a user is not happy with a page Google will not be either. The intension of this entire post is whether or not we can use a bounce rate to improve our rankings. I gave more then enough proof to validate that it does. Yes these are peoples opinions, however they are all professionals and im getting these opinions from many people.

If you "still" think you are correct please leave a comment on his thread stating that "bounce rate is useless" and we will see the feedback you get from 100s of SEO Professionals.
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  #651 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ord Allenbea View Post
I do not have to provide any source for a search engine not knowing what goes on inside my site. There is no 3rd party that can track everything that goes on in a site unless they have access to raw server logs, which they don't. This is fact and no source is needed for that.

As for bounce rate I already pretty much stated it is useless. If SEO professionals disagree with that then they are entitled to their opinion. As for demographic, there are certain things that need to be checked and tested but I personally think people waste far too much time on too many trivial things.

Nowhere have I said not to test, not to tweak, not to learn...
Right, we cannot prove anything "there is no 3rd party that can track everything that goes on in a site unless they have access to raw server logs, which they don't." But I want them to scan my pages and see all the quality work I put into it. This way they will favor my site. I want to know what my bounce rate is so I can test, tweek, and learn.
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  #652 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:01 PM
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35-36% is mine. I am working really hard to improve my bounce rate...
 
  #653 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 01:47 PM
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I agree John, for some sites, if you visit them every day, say it is a blog and you visit to read a blog post, and leave. But then for the site owner it is good to know are you a return visitor or a first time visitor. If you are a first time visitor, then it is not a good indicator.

Another comment here: some times bounce rate is inflated, because we do not have event tracking installed on page. Say people come and watch vodeo and leave. They stay long and really engage with us, but analytics is not recording it.
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  #654 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gayana View Post
I agree John, for some sites, if you visit them every day, say it is a blog and you visit to read a blog post, and leave. But then for the site owner it is good to know are you a return visitor or a first time visitor. If you are a first time visitor, then it is not a good indicator.

Another comment here: some times bounce rate is inflated, because we do not have event tracking installed on page. Say people come and watch vodeo and leave. They stay long and really engage with us, but analytics is not recording it.
This is where giving the viewer more comes into play..

Something like, did you like the video? want to learn more? click here

Once someone gets to my site I dont want them to leave. Therefore I must provide more value for them to stay, this gives my user more value and improves my SEO results.
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  #655 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
Don't agree with this. With all the personalization and ignorance amongst web surfers about how much spying the search engines and other sites do they can easily surmise (correctly or incorrectly) what your actions were when visiting a site.
Doesn't negate the fact that Google cannot see that which it is not a party to.

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  #656 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
This is where giving the viewer more comes into play..

Something like, did you like the video? want to learn more? click here
To repeat, making the user jump so that you can artificially manipulate bounce rate or any other metric serves no good purpose.

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  #657 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
Right, we cannot prove anything "there is no 3rd party that can track everything that goes on in a site unless they have access to raw server logs, which they don't." But I want them to scan my pages and see all the quality work I put into it. This way they will favor my site.
No one, SE's included, needs your help in order to index discovered resources. And, manipulating your bounce rate or using any particular web tagged analytics is not going to be of any material effect in such regard.

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  #658 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
from: http:// (remove space) www (remove space) .seomoz.org/ugc/dear-google-bing-help-me-rank-better-sxsw-2012-review


Wow this post had some excellent timing. I think this clarifies everything for me!

What do you think about this Deepsand? Please respond in regular English
To repeat, this is not the real bounce rate.

BTW, why are you mutilating cited URLs? Copying/pasting/editing them is a royal PITA. If you have an aversion to posting hyperlinks, encapsulate them, unaltered, in the "NOPARSE" BBC tags.


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Last edited by deepsand; 04-19-2012 at 05:28 PM.
 
  #659 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
There is a set it and forget it. Its called building a page that has rich content that everyone naturally links to. I have a few pages like this and I have not changed anything on them in over 8 month. However, my ranking are all consistently climbing the SERP.
Which can easily become "set it, forget, and kiss it goodbye."

Exceptions are not the rule.

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  #660 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2012, 06:39 PM
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Please supply your sources where a search engine can spy on my website and tell what my visitors/members/customers do. I know you can't supply any sources to this because the fact (yes I said fact) no search engine can track your website visitors without "code" added to your site to allow such a thing.

Oh wait they have toolbar users, sorry that does not cut it either and there is proof of this right from Alexa which can not track your traffic.

Next we will hear that AI is real


Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
Don't agree with this. With all the personalization and ignorance amongst web surfers about how much spying the search engines and other sites do they can easily surmise (correctly or incorrectly) what your actions were when visiting a site.
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