Would this be "black hat"??

Nuroo · 04-27-2008, 11:26 PM

Newbie here starting from the ground up. I am currently still in the learning process and am designing my site layout now (finally). I want everything to be legit and no "black hat" tricks. I am a bit concerned that something I have coded will be mistaken as black hat. My site logo and name are inside a div, however I put the images for the logo and site name as a background image via my external CSS. But since i wanna go by web standards and accessibility, I also put a transparent image in the same spot, that links to my homepage and with the proper Alt Text.
I guess the reason I did that is so that my pages arent very heavy with the logo images. The transparent images file sizes are very very small. Would that get me banned by Google? Or is it ok? Or should I just put the logo images as a regular HTML code?

htmlbasictutor · 04-27-2008, 11:44 PM

I can't answer your SEO question for sure but,

If you put your logo as a background, most people have print background images and colours turned off in their browser when printing web pages. You can verify this yourself using the File/Print Preview function of your browser.

Something to keep in mind if people print your web pages for future reference, they won't see your logo. A missed opportunity for branding and making easier for them to find you again to make a purchase.

Nuroo · 04-28-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htmlbasictutor

I can't answer your SEO question for sure but,

If you put your logo as a background, most people have print background images and colours turned off in their browser when printing web pages. You can verify this yourself using the File/Print Preview function of your browser.

Something to keep in mind if people print your web pages for future reference, they won't see your logo. A missed opportunity for branding and making easier for them to find you again to make a purchase.

Good point. Something I didn't know. I think I'll just add the logos as regular html with an inline css for positioning flexibility. Dont really care right now for the purchase part, as my site will be content based only for now. Thanks for the info though!

stacy131 · 04-28-2008, 02:50 AM

So your logo is not an actual image but it is a background that you have linked to from a CSS file. But since you felt like you needed link and an ALT tag, you added a transparent image over it which you probably made transparent through Photoshop or some other photo rendering software, correct?

No, doesn't sound like black hat, although it is quite sneaky. Have you checked how it looks across different browsers and screen resolutions?

Nuroo · 04-28-2008, 04:02 AM

Yes Staci. You are correct. I made the transparent images in Gimp and placed right in the middle where the background logo appears from my external css, so it looks like its a regular clickable image that you see in a lot of sites. I have only checked it in firefox 2 and IE 6 and it looks pretty much perfect. When I am almost ready to publish to a server, I think I will check it on opera and upgrade IE also. And again, I am in no way doing this to cram keywords as I do wish my site to have a long life on google

Manish Pandey · 04-28-2008, 01:29 PM

Google isn't there to ban your site. So, don't worry about it. If you think it's a valid CSS design then go ahead and do it. First make it for human then for search engines. Just keep in mind a point "if you think something is fishy, then search engines too think it's pretty much fishy, if you don't then they might not too."

Nuroo · 04-28-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manish Pandey

Google isn't there to ban your site. So, don't worry about it. If you think it's a valid CSS design then go ahead and do it. First make it for human then for search engines. Just keep in mind a point "if you think something is fishy, then search engines too think it's pretty much fishy, if you don't then they might not too."

to me it seems legit. I'm doing because of design purposes on my end but still trying to adhere to web accessibility standards. However, I started reading about all the hidden text garbage that some use and I wouldn't want my site to be mistaken as bad. I think I'll just redo it the old fashioned way.

roger_d · 04-28-2008, 04:20 PM

I personally wouldn't worry too much about alt text for your logo since it is a background not an image file included on the page. Why not make the entire div clickable?

<div class="head" onclick="home();">
</div>

Then an external javascript file with this function
function home(){
window.location='http://www.homepage.com/';
}

The last thing you want to do is "rank" a transparent image with alt text or have text readers showing spacer images. This allows the entire div to be clickable.

Nuroo · 04-28-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger_d

I personally wouldn't worry too much about alt text for your logo since it is a background not an image file included on the page. Why not make the entire div clickable?

<div class="head" onclick="home();">
</div>

Then an external javascript file with this function
function home(){
window.location='http://www.homepage.com/';
}

The last thing you want to do is "rank" a transparent image with alt text or have text readers showing spacer images. This allows the entire div to be clickable.

good idea. The only problem I see that my come with this is that some folks dont enable Java, isn't that correct?

htmlbasictutor · 04-28-2008, 07:21 PM

Java and JavaScript are two different things.

Yes, if the user has JavaScript turned off or using a browser that does not support scripting, the function will not execute.

Nuroo · 04-28-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htmlbasictutor

Java and JavaScript are two different things.

Yes, if the user has JavaScript turned off or using a browser that does not support scripting, the function will not execute.

Thanks. So when all is said and done, the best thing to do to have a "clickable/linkable" logo, is to just put it as a regular HTML img tag?

francis84 · 04-30-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuroo

Newbie here starting from the ground up. I am currently still in the learning process and am designing my site layout now (finally). I want everything to be legit and no "black hat" tricks. I am a bit concerned that something I have coded will be mistaken as black hat. My site logo and name are inside a div, however I put the images for the logo and site name as a background image via my external CSS. But since i wanna go by web standards and accessibility, I also put a transparent image in the same spot, that links to my homepage and with the proper Alt Text.
I guess the reason I did that is so that my pages arent very heavy with the logo images. The transparent images file sizes are very very small. Would that get me banned by Google? Or is it ok? Or should I just put the logo images as a regular HTML code?

We better see your website design so that we can see what you are pointing out.

lovekissing · 04-30-2008, 11:11 PM

as long as there are no hidden links...

Nuroo · 05-01-2008, 12:25 AM

I changed it. I went with the traditional IMG tag and used CSS to position it. Hopefully within a month or so, I will have the site up and running

davidgeo · 05-02-2008, 02:05 AM

As long as u dont have hidden text and hidden links nothing going to be wrong.

skysoldier · 05-02-2008, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuroo

I changed it. I went with the traditional IMG tag and used CSS to position it. Hopefully within a month or so, I will have the site up and running

Just don't forget to do a good off-page optimization and you'll surely rank!

nica26 · 05-07-2008, 06:15 AM

You should be aware of what black hat is and what is not because that leads you to be ban in Google search engine.
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seconnection · 05-07-2008, 08:16 AM

I wouldn't be concerned..sounds legit to me

Nuroo · 05-07-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nica26

You should be aware of what black hat is and what is not because that leads you to be ban in Google search engine

Ummm, dont wanna sound like I am saying DUH, but.........DUH! That is why I posted the question to this forum. To get advice and tips from the seasoned "veterans" here, and I have got many great tips. My site is still not live and in the design stages still. As I said I am a beginner and doing this from scratch and coding it myself.

Nuroo · 05-07-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seconnection

I wouldn't be concerned..sounds legit to me

Im gonna hi-jack my own thread here, but I have quick question on mp3 players. What mp3 player has the highest output that would sound ok through an AUX in on my car stereo? My Sony mp3 player just outputs a measly 5mW and there is a pretty good volume drop off from when I play a CD.

(sorry, I couldnt find any kind of private msg thing)