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  #1  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:00 PM
WhatsLeft WhatsLeft is offline
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Should Obama Apologize?

Two days ago Barack Obama gave a television interview to a Muslim cable TV station, in which he said too often the USA has communicated with Islamic nations by dictating instead of listening. He wants to start a discourse with them by listening first, and he wants to begin a dialogue with Iran.

Yesterday, Ahmadinejad said the dialogue with Iran should begin with the USA apologizing for its dark background and criminal acts against Iran, and with the USA withdrawing support for Israel.

What do you think –
Is it smart for the USA to apologize to Iran and to stop supporting Israel?
If Barack does apologize, do you believe then he could organize the community in the Middle East?
If Barack does not want to apologize, how should he formulate a smart response?
 

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  #2  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:24 PM
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It would sure restore some of the respect for the USA that's totally absent now.

It would show not only the Arab world, but the entire world, that the political leaders in the USA finally admit they have been the bully-on-the-block and have been on the wrong side of justice for too many times in the past decade.

It would show some "change".



..but I doubt it'll ever happen.
 
  #3  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:08 PM
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No, he should not apologize! Rather he should show good faith and wisdom but not weakness...an apology would, especially in the eyes of the ME, show weakness.
 
  #4  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:23 PM
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Why not? Didn't Obama promised that changed will happen to America?

And isn't true courage comes when you admit that you're wrong and knows how to apologize?
 
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Old 01-28-2009, 01:57 PM
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Yes, he should write his appology onto parchment paper and deliver it to the Mullahs in the front of a Tommahawk missile.

Get real - he sets up a straw man that somehow freeing 50 million moslems in the last 8 years is bad. And then pretends to be sorry for it.
 
  #6  
Old 01-28-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3n!ss3_gÜrL View Post
Why not? Didn't Obama promised that changed will happen to America?

And isn't true courage comes when you admit that you're wrong and knows how to apologize?
If he apologized at all it would be for the ineptness and and boneheadedness of his predecessor....who, btw, apologizes for nothing which gives his 12% base a thrill up the leg....
 
  #7  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:12 PM
WhatsLeft WhatsLeft is offline
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I don't know if Obama will apologize or not. It seems he already apologized for all Americans, because that's what we are, to the Europeans when he gave a speech in Germany during the elections, and he may feel it accomplished something positive.

However, even if he does not apologize, I'm sure he could get a dialogue going with Ahmadinejad on whether the holocaust actually ever happened. But I don't really know what Obama's position is on that.
 
  #8  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:26 PM
pgzn pgzn is offline
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Islam was not outraged as Saddam Hussain slaughtered his people. Islam was not outraged as the Taliban executed women for any number of imagined sins. Islam is silent as Iran stones 13-year-old girls to death. Islam is not outraged as thousands of young women die at the hands of their own families in brutal honor killings. Islam says nothing as its terrorist heroes butcher Iraqi Muslims on a daily basis.

Islam say's nothing to any of the daily butchery commited by moslems

What does it take to make a Muslim angry? Say something bad about Islam and you can lose your head. Drop the Quran in the dirt and you will be hanged. In Sudan, a hapless man named Mohamed Taha Mohamed Ahmed, dared speculate that Mohammed was not the son of Abdullah and is now on trial for blasphemy and he will probably be hanged. Mobs of foaming-at-the-mouth Muslims gather outside the courthouse demanding he be torn to bits for even thinking such a thing.

Put women's underwear on a Muslim prisoner's head and Islamics loose total control and riot in the streets outraged at the barbaric treatment of their "soldiers." Islamic terrorists do not uphold a single word of the Geneva Convention. They beat, torture, and behead our prisoners, many of whom are not even soldiers and think nothing of it. They desecrate bodies by burning them and hanging them from bridges, but touch that Quran and Islam looses its collective mind.

We are apologizing to these people?
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/stock/050515
 
  #9  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
I'm sure he could get a dialogue going with Ahmadinejad on whether the holocaust actually ever happened. But I don't really know what Obama's position is on that.

Don't you think that they would have some more important matters to discuss today instead of one's view on which one of the revisited history books to believe in?


 
  #10  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferre View Post

Don't you think that they would have some more important matters to discuss today instead of one's view on which one of the revisited history books to believe in?


Well, if Obama is going to start off with a new type of "smart" diplomacy, and if that means he has to "listen" first, then he must recognize that Ahmadinejad thinks whether the holocaust happened is a very important issue.

So, if Obama apologizes, but then he takes the position that the holocaust actually did happen, will Ahmadinejad be able to respect him then?? I don't think so. Obama really is going to have to be real smart to talk to Ahmadinejad and gain his respect.
 
  #11  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgzn View Post
Islam say's nothing to any of the daily butchery commited by moslems
Apart from the fact that you provide a site as a reference which does not include one single source in that list, but let's say that list is correct as we have no reason to believe otherwise.

How are you so sure that "Islam" say "nothing"? Do you read Arabic? Do you follow the mainstream Arabic news stations in say, countries like Egypt, Turkey or Morocco?

Apparently there is a large community of moderate Muslims all over the world who condemn terrorism and the Arab mainstream media does give those people a voice.

Look it up, but try google instead of anti-islam sites.


A better argument would be to say that the Muslim world is rather double, Saudi Arabia for example condemns terrorism and joined the US war on terrorism while at the same time they fund extremist priests all over the world to build mosques and preach the gospel which feeds terrorists.

With that I would agree.
 
  #12  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:15 PM
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I don't read Arabic. But you will be soon. I find it humorous that a website which only documents terrorist attacks in the news is considered a "anti-islam" site by you.

Your failure to denounce them with anything stronger than tsk tsk, and fake frown, or blaming the attacked. Yet your ability to seek out any slight insult to Islam and declare it a prosecutable war crime is quite telling too. It could be that in your location, you are about 3 days away from submitting to sharia law. (A slight exagerration) Don't know...just a thought.

Last edited by pgzn; 01-28-2009 at 06:23 PM.
 
  #13  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:51 PM
gggorosin22 gggorosin22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FocalPoint View Post
No, he should not apologize! Rather he should show good faith and wisdom but not weakness...an apology would, especially in the eyes of the ME, show weakness.
indeed. Never show weakness to anyone. It could back fire at you.
 
  #14  
Old 01-28-2009, 06:54 PM
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I might add - you do know that when (not if) Amsterdam imposes sharia law, the first thing to go will be marijuana. ROTFLMAO. I say when, not if because 50% of people under 18 in your town are moslems, and that percentage is on the rise.

You may want to thicken up your soles right now, because I believe the penalty is flogging. And that's if the cleric is in a good mood.

Last edited by pgzn; 01-28-2009 at 07:01 PM.
 
  #15  
Old 01-28-2009, 07:02 PM
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Once again, I am at a loss for research on a topic... I guess I have my hands full with physics. Regardless, I do have an opinion and here it is. I Agree that there is more than one side to the islamic tradition. As a matter of fact I have personally spoken with a few people from the "other side" of Islamic tradition and according to them "Islam is a religion of peace not war! The violence and terrorism which the world see's today is not the true face of Islam!"

The above quote now that I think about it brings to mind a certain religious group known as the Christians. While the times have changed and Islam seems to be playing the role of "the bad guy" didn't the Christians once wage war for the same reasons as they do now? Weren't those wars called "The Crusades" and weren't the majority of them fought against Islam?? (Google it for your self and see)

The point I'm trying to make is this, Islam (as a whole) is not at fault for the brainwashing and twisted words delivered by terrorists and those who would seek to destroy that which has been accomplished by mankind.

As far as an apology goes.. I can think of much worse display's of weakness!! I for one feel that the U.S. has gone past the point of bravery at the risk of being foolish. We have gone well beyond our boundaries and we have interfered where we really don't belong.

In short, if we want to avoid turning Iran into the next "Iraq" I say we make an apology. Show them some respect and lend them the "olive branch" As far as pulling out of Israel is concerned, I think there's been enough fighting in that region and our presence there will stand only to make it worse. Let them duke it out and kill each other off if necessary or let them decide on their own terms wether or not to talk piece. After all, it's none of our damn business what they do. We have our own problems and faults to deal with first and foremost before we can play the "Holier Than Thou Art" game.
 
  #16  
Old 01-28-2009, 07:53 PM
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I heard that speech.
I would say in politics admitting own fault is not always a good thing; in this case I think he could express his desire for establishing peace without that.

Two main issues that he gotta solve:
- israel issue
- oil issue

I don't see any peace in near future.
 
  #17  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gggorosin22 View Post
indeed. Never show weakness to anyone. It could back fire at you.
The video the BBC didn't show. And what happens when you show weakness to the religion of peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97hyDRjdXCE

You get chased for blocks by the peacefull protesters.
 
  #18  
Old 01-29-2009, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgzn View Post
The video the BBC didn't show. And what happens when you show weakness to the religion of peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97hyDRjdXCE

You get chased for blocks by the peacefull protesters.
Dude, welcome to demonstrations in Europe, where the people are not being easily intimidated by the police.

You might like American demonstrations better, where peaceful demonstrators are shot at, tasered and arrested eh?

For your information, People in Europe have the RIGHT to demonstrate, the police is there NOT to stop them, police is not even allowed to try and do that, they are there to "intimidate" with their presence, and in this case the demonstrators clearly did not welcome this police intimidation.
IF the police had charged the police would have been in violation of the law.

But, I assume you don't understand this concept.
 
  #19  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:57 AM
pgzn pgzn is offline
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IF the police had charged the police would have been in violation of the law.
But charging the police and pelting them with objects isn't a violation of the law? Expound on that theory. Don't forget the forum rules you continually paste. I'd like to see cites to back up that claim. Specifically the ordinance that allows attacking of police, or the ordinance that disallows the police from enforcing a law against attacking police.

You are already in violation of forum rules by not citing those laws in the last post. cite

Last edited by pgzn; 01-29-2009 at 09:15 AM.
 
  #20  
Old 01-29-2009, 09:03 AM
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We should stop bullying Iran, but shouldn't turn our backs against our only ally in the Mideast [Israel].
 
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