Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #21  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:17 AM
ScriptMan's Avatar
ScriptMan ScriptMan is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 02-10-07
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 14,038
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
If it means that China come off looking the hero's in this and manage to calm things down, then so be it as it is much better than the alternative.

I'm not sure the government's of UK ans US have people with small enough egos to allow that to happen.
 
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #22  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:28 AM
G10's Avatar
G10 G10 is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 05-10-04
Location: UK - Cheshire
Posts: 11,765
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Just throwing out an idea, here, but what if the PTB don't want peace?
Would a peaceful government threaten the US like North Korea has?
Would a peaceful US government (which could squash N.K. and really shouldn't take the threats of a child seriously) really need to send ships and bombers to the area (hornet's nest) or would talks be a better way to handle the situation?
It may be that the people want peace, but the governments certainly aren't acting like they do.
It isn't an act of war, putting a destroyer in the waters close by, it is a pre-emptive measure that I totally agree with because if this guy is as nuts as he seems to be, then it's only a matter of time before the power gets to his head and he does something stupid.

North Korea have been making threats for years but lately they really have stepped up the mark and if we were in power in the US, we'd probably do the exact same thing.
 
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-02-2013, 07:14 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,770
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
It isn't an act of war, putting a destroyer in the waters close by, it is a pre-emptive measure that I totally agree with because if this guy is as nuts as he seems to be, then it's only a matter of time before the power gets to his head and he does something stupid.
Economic sanctions are an act of war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
North Korea have been making threats for years but lately they really have stepped up the mark and if we were in power in the US, we'd probably do the exact same thing.
Put yourself in North Korea's shoes for a moment.
The west has put numerous crippling economic sanctions in place against them, an act of war.
If you doubt it's an act of war, try freezing the US out of world economic activity (freezing bank accounts of US citizens, disallowing trade with the US, etc.).
See how long the US would put up with that without issuing a threat or two of it's own.

People are treating Jong-Un's threats as if they have taken place in a vacuum. They haven't.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the threats.
I'm just saying that if the US and the west in general were actually interested in peace, there are a lot smarter ways to achieve it than moving military machinery to the opponent's front door.
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:20 AM
jamesosix's Avatar
jamesosix jamesosix is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 01-24-13
Location: South Wales
Posts: 144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
He is off his rocker tbh but I dont doubt he could start a intense war - will he win? Unlikely, but never write an underdog off. Look at 'Nam for example.

Of course, if he does get his hands on a nuke warhead and hit American soil, then I'll be in my fallout bunker until all this blows over..
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:26 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Economic sanctions are an act of war.

Put yourself in North Korea's shoes for a moment.
The west has put numerous crippling economic sanctions in place against them, an act of war.
If you doubt it's an act of war, try freezing the US out of world economic activity (freezing bank accounts of US citizens, disallowing trade with the US, etc.).
See how long the US would put up with that without issuing a threat or two of it's own.

People are treating Jong-Un's threats as if they have taken place in a vacuum. They haven't.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the threats.
I'm just saying that if the US and the west in general were actually interested in peace, there are a lot smarter ways to achieve it than moving military machinery to the opponent's front door.
Well, Zap if there are economic sanctions it is not by coincidence.

Just look at all the recent North Korean provocations timeline and acts of war

Timeline: North Korean provocations

Quote:
December 12 2012 North Korea successfully fired a long-range rocket and claimed to have put a satellite into orbit, despite international condemnation. The move, seen as a significant military threat in neighbouring countries, sparked strong condemnation from South Korea, Japan and the US plus China – North Korea’s economic benefactor and only real ally in the region.

October 2012 North Korea warned that the US mainland is now within the “scope of strike” of its missiles. The threat came shortly after the US and South Korea agreed to extend the range of the South’s ballistic missiles – a move which Pyongyang said increased the risk of war on the Korean Peninsula.

April 2012 North Korea fired a rocket – again to put a satellite into orbit – but it broke up only 90 seconds after it was launched. In an unusual move state media in Pyongyang admitted the failure which observers suggested would put the new young leader, Kim Jong-eun, under more pressure to prove his credentials.

February 2012 The US agreed to provide North Korea with food aid in return for a commitment to suspend its nuclear programme. But the deal fell apart two months later after Pyongyang’s failed satellite launch.

December 17 2011 The death of Kim Jong-il leads to mass mourning and the elevation of his third son, Kim Jong-eun, to be the country’s leader. The change at the top sparked concern that the younger Kim, to establish his authority, could try to engineer a nuclear test.

November 2010 Tensions on the divided Korean peninsula rose to their highest level in more than two decades after Pyongyang bombarded a South Korean island, killing two servicemen and seriously injuring more than a dozen people, including civilians. It is North Korea’s most dangerous offensive against civilians in the region since it bombed a South Korean airliner in 1987, killing 115 people. Key events tracking hostilities between the neighbours are listed below.

North Korea reveals it has built a previously secret uranium nuclear facility.

September 2010 Kim Jong-eun, son of Kim Jong-il, is named as top general to prepare succession for the North Korean leader.

March 2010 North Korea sinks South Korea’s Cheonan warship. South Korea initially all but ruled out North Korean involvement in the sinking of one of its navy vessels near their disputed border.

November 2009 North and South Korean warships clash in the Yellow Sea, raising tensions in the region ahead of President Barack Obama’s visit to Asia.

May 2009 North Korea conducts a second nuclear test sparking an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council amid fears the communist state is racing to fit atomic warheads on its improving arsenal of ballistic missiles.

September 2008 North Korea’s 66-year-old dictator, Kim Jong-il reportedly suffers a stroke.

June 2008: The cooling tower is demolished at Yongbyon in a highly publicised move by Pyongyang. The US removes North Korea from its state sponsors of terrorism list, a move that angers Tokyo, which had urged Washington not to do so until the thorny dispute of Japanese citizens abducted by North Korea over several decades was resolved.

September 2007: North Korea holds talks with the US. Washington announces that North Korea has agreed to disable its nuclear facilities by the end of the year, including the dismantlement of the Yongbyon reactor and the destruction of the weapons grade plutonium it has.

June 2007: Pyongyang confirms it has received the money from the funds and announces it will begin implementing the February 2007 agreement.

April 2007: North Korea misses the deadline to shut its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon, citing the banking dispute as a cause.

March 2007: Six-party talks falter over a banking disagreement. More than $25m in North Korean-related funds, which the US says are linked to counterfeiting and money laundering, are frozen at Banco Delta Asia in Macau. Washington promises to release the funds within a month but banks are unwilling to handle the transaction. North Korea insists that the funds are released before further progress can be made.

February 2007: Six-party negotiations resume in Beijing. Washington indicates it is prepared to make concessions, such as removing Pyongyang from the list of state sponsors of terrorism at some point and easing restrictions on US companies dealing with the country. North Korea agrees to take the first steps towards nuclear disarmament in exchange for an unspecified amount of aid and security assurances. It promises to seal its main nuclear facilities and allow international inspectors to verify this process.

December 2006: Six-party talks begin but end four days later.

October 2006 North Korea announces it has carried out its first nuclear test – a highly provocative action that sparked outrage across the globe.

The UN Security Council warns North Korea against ballistic missile testing.

September 2006: Pyongyang blames Washington for the stalemate in multilateral talks. In a speech to the UN General Assembly, its envoy Choe Su-Hon says that North Korea is willing to hold talks.

April 2006: A two-day meeting aimed at bringing North Korea back to discussions is unsuccessful.

July 2006 North Korea launches seven missiles, including a long-range Taepodong-2 with the theoretical capacity of reaching the US, but which fails 40 seconds into its flight.

November 2005: A fifth round of six-party negotiations collapses after just three days.

September 2005: North Korea agrees to abandon all of its nuclear weapons development while the five other countries in the six-party talks pledge to discuss supplying a light-water reactor “at an appropriate time”.

July 2005: Fourth round of six-party talks begins in Beijing when North Korea announces its willingness to resume negotiations after an offer of electricity and food aid from South Korea. After 13 days of talks and five draft agreements, the talks are temporarily suspended.

June 2005: US pledges food aid to North Korea, citing it as purely humanitarian and not connected to work towards ending Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons programme.

May 2005: North Korea fires a short-range missile into the Sea of Japan.

February 2005: Pyongyang announces it is suspending involvement in talks, citing US antagonism.

September 2004: North Korea tells the UN General Assembly it has converted plutonium from spent fuel rods into nuclear weapons.

July 2004: In the highest-level talks since the beginning of the crisis, the US secretary of state, Colin Powell, meets the North Korean foreign minister, Paek Nam-sun, on July 2. However, the offers and discussions also prove unsuccessful and negotiations break down.

June 2004: Third round of six-party talks held. The US offers tens of thousands of tonnes of heavy fuel oil in exchange for North Korea freezing and dismantling its nuclear weapons programme.

February 2004: The South Korean president, Roh Moo-hyun, urges the US and its allies to offer concessions to persuade North Korea to abandon its atomic weapons programme ahead of a second round of six-party talks in Beijing. The talks fail to make headway.

January 2004: North Korea allows an unofficial US delegation of scientists and government officials to tour Yongbyon and shows them what appears to be weapons-grade plutonium. The following month Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani nuclear scientist, admits to sharing uranium-linked technology with North Korea, which Pyongyang denies.

August 2003: North Korea agrees to six-party talks with South Korea, China, Japan, Russia and the US. The first round of talks in Beijing fails to reach an agreement but there are plans for future discussions.

July 2003: Intelligence agencies report that North Korea has started to reprocess some spent plutonium fuel rods from its Yongbyon plant.

April 2003: North Korea announces a willingness to move away from an insistence on direct talks with the US. Talks begin under Chinese auspices but they end in failure a day later. US officials say they have been told by North Korea it possesses nuclear weapons.

January 2003: Pyongyang announces North Korea’s withdrawal from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

December 2002: North Korea requests that the UN’s International Atomic Energy Agency remove its surveillance from the Yongbyon power plant. Pyongyang later announces the expulsion of the two IAEA nuclear inspectors in the country.

November 2002: George W. Bush, US president, announces that oil shipments will cease if North Korea pursues developing nuclear weapons.

October 2002: US says it has evidence of a secret uranium-enrichment programme in North Korea, in defiance of the 1994 agreed framework between Washington and Pyongyang, which stated that the latter would renounce enriching uranium and would receive oil and light water nuclear power reactors from the US instead.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0c4d6...#axzz2PJteMFrx

Last edited by Franc Tireur; 04-02-2013 at 08:31 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:38 AM
clocalseo clocalseo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 04-02-13
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 1
iTrader: 0 / 0%
He is just bluffing... He is afraid to die... But on the other hand, if it would walk his talk, the nation would be put to danger...
 
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-02-2013, 08:43 AM
ServerDeals's Avatar
ServerDeals ServerDeals is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-27-13
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 61
iTrader: 0 / 0%
North Korea at its current state can launch strikes as far at Japan and surrounding waters. Thats if they chose to do so with the backlash that would stem from it. Contrary to popular belief, although radical thinkers, both him and his father were very smart in the way they gained control of the region. Also, they have been very smart up until recently in gaining funds to fund their growth as a military power. Although, they are not up to par with other nations, they do have a weapons program. If they could engineer a way to launch a long range nuclear strike I am sure they would hold it over everyone's head.

Certainly in a nation, which is as impoverished in the outer regions of Pyongyang and other major political cities, it may be difficult for them to rally up the troops with enough moral to do major damage before conceding defeat.

All things are possible however and even though we have a embargo on them it is important to know that a lot of other countries openly trade and work with North Korea. Just my thought on North Korea's leadership and its potential threat to the greater good.
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-02-2013, 09:28 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,770
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
Well, Zap if there are economic sanctions it is not by coincidence.

Just look at all the recent North Korean provocations timeline and acts of war

Timeline: North Korean provocations
Of course it's not by coincidence.
Reread my post. I'm not excusing the threats made by North Korea (Jong-Il or Jong-Un).
I'm simply saying that if the US were really interested in peace, there might be a better way to achieve it than sending B2 bombers and aircraft carriers over to the North Korean neighbourood.
I don't think that's moving in a peaceful direction.
Each side is trying out out-scare the other. That only leads to one conclusion.
If peace is desired, sooner or later, both sides have to stop the threats and start talking.

And, btw, a lot of your list is a result of North Korea trying to build a nuclear weapon.
As unsavoury as I find that prospect (or Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon), I don't see the US as having any authority to stop them.
It's easy for the guy with the nuclear weapons to say that nobody else should have them.
The US has no moral leg to stand on in this matter, nor does any other nation that possesses nuclear weapons.
There is no moral difference between nuclear weapons control and gun control.
Only the scale is different.
Pick a side, NE.
 
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-02-2013, 12:06 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
I'm simply saying that if the US were really interested in peace, there might be a better way to achieve it than sending B2 bombers and aircraft carriers over to the North Korean neighbourood.

I don't think that's moving in a peaceful direction.
Each side is trying out out-scare the other. That only leads to one conclusion.
If peace is desired, sooner or later, both sides have to stop the threats and start talking.

And, btw, a lot of your list is a result of North Korea trying to build a nuclear weapon.
As unsavoury as I find that prospect (or Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon), I don't see the US as having any authority to stop them.
It's easy for the guy with the nuclear weapons to say that nobody else should have them.
The US has no moral leg to stand on in this matter, nor does any other nation that possesses nuclear weapons.
There is no moral difference between nuclear weapons control and gun control.
Only the scale is different.
Pick a side, NE.
The problem is that peace is builded with two partners, if only one wants it, it will not work.

What I was trying to say is North Korea can't make continuously threats for years and want the peace at the same time, they have to chose what they want to achieve. Now is China wants to use North Korea as a buffer from the West or use North Korea in a bigger geopolitics game? I think many elements are on the chess board.

If I pick a side it will be the peace, but if attacked it will be legitimate for me to respond with full power.
 
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-02-2013, 12:56 PM
robjones's Avatar
robjones robjones is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,680
iTrader: 0 / 0%
On the one hand, you've got a noisy little dictator with little experience, less knowledge, a huge ego... willing to put lives at risk to look manly.

One the other side we have that obnoxious little Chia pet that runs N Korea, and he's no treasure either.
 
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-02-2013, 01:09 PM
mrna3r's Avatar
mrna3r mrna3r is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 04-01-13
Location: Earth of GOD
Posts: 59
iTrader: 0 / 0%
war ?
why?
Althogh i don't love north korea BUT,US have 200000 nukes and is greatest threat for humans.
 
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:36 PM
robjones's Avatar
robjones robjones is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,680
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrna3r View Post
war ?
why?
Althogh i don't love north korea BUT,US have 200000 nukes and is greatest threat for humans.
We have NO reason to go to war with North Korea. Noisy bluster is just that... not a casus beli. It's a cause to keep eyes open, not a cause to draw blood.

And regardless of your thoughts on the US... NOBODY has 200,000 nukes. Last figures I saw, we had a bit over 5100 and not all of those are deployed. Whether the numbers are dead accurate or not, it'd be a stretch for us to have 200k without someone noticing. See http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheet...ponswhohaswhat

I gather you're in Iran. Your news sources are probably as bad as ours (unless you watch ours too, then you're really strapped for good intel).
 
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:44 PM
mrna3r's Avatar
mrna3r mrna3r is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 04-01-13
Location: Earth of GOD
Posts: 59
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thanks,yes this is 5100
i did read in us websites 20 000 and not 200 000,
how you gathered i am in iran?
 
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:45 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Rob, maybe we should send them Hippie Hollow....
 
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:45 PM
robjones's Avatar
robjones robjones is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,680
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrna3r
how you gathered i am in iran?
Not my first rodeo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket
Rob, maybe we should send them Hippie Hollow....
I'm a north Tx kid... I had to look it up myself.
 
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:46 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrna3r View Post
Thanks,yes this is 5100
i did read in us websites 20 000 and not 200 000,
how you gathered i am in iran?
2012

Country Operational
Strategic Operational
Nonstrategic Reserve/
Nondeployed Military
Stockpile Total Inventory
Russia 1,740a 0b 2,700c 4,500 8,500d
United States 1,950e 200f
2,500g 4,650 7,700h
France 290 n.a. ?i 300 300
China 0j ?j 180
240
240j
United Kingdom 160k n.a. 65 225 225k
Israel 0 n.a. 80 80 80l
Pakistan 0 n.a. 90-110 90-110 90-110m
India 0 n.a. 80-100 80-100 80-100n
North Korea 0 n.a. <10 <10 <10o
Total:p
~4,100 ~200 ~5,700 ~10,200 ~17,300

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/nuke...ukestatus.html

Last edited by Franc Tireur; 04-02-2013 at 02:52 PM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-02-2013, 02:55 PM
mrna3r's Avatar
mrna3r mrna3r is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 04-01-13
Location: Earth of GOD
Posts: 59
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thanks Natural Elements
I hope they all nukes disappear.
and Sanctions to my country will be destroyed.
 
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-02-2013, 03:07 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by robjones View Post
I'm a north Tx kid... I had to look it up myself.
I spotted it the 1st time from the back of a Wave Runner. I nearly fell off.

I figured maybe that is why they wanna go after Austin.
 
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-02-2013, 03:39 PM
robjones's Avatar
robjones robjones is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,680
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
I figured maybe that is why they wanna go after Austin.
Face it. Everyone in Texas has wanted to nuke Austin at some point.
 
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-02-2013, 04:14 PM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,770
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
The problem is that peace is builded with two partners, if only one wants it, it will not work.
The problem here is that neither side wants it right now.
Both sides are puffing up their chest. That will not produce peace.
 
Reply With Quote
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Greetings from north of the border AdamCochran New Member Introductions 10 08-19-2012 11:47 AM
Greetings from the North! genhost New Member Introductions 4 07-25-2009 08:37 PM
Hello from North Carolina jwojdylo New Member Introductions 3 11-03-2008 02:43 PM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:49 PM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2018 VIX-WomensForum LLC