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Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


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  #121  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:22 PM
WhatsLeft WhatsLeft is offline
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Originally Posted by troublescoot View Post
But this out is flawed, because the point you're trying to support is that there is a definitive difference between right and wrong...We both know that's just not true.
Ok, do you want to say you do not see a definite difference between right and wrong, while I say I do. I see slavery in America in Lincoln's time as wrong, and I know that is true.


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Originally Posted by troublescoot View Post
Of course, whether we admit it or not, we'd all like to live like the Beatles' "Imagine" paints it -- no religion, no war, peace, living for today, etc.
Yeah, I'm not going to try to learn about right from wrong from the Beatles. That will only add confusion.
 

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  #122  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rabble View Post
And you are using it to express neo-con / faux news, nationalistc / quasi-fascist, running dog, corporate imperialist propaganda. So what?

You afraid to debate?
I am using the thread to review whether the USA should have talks with Iran without preconditions and in particular noting how the issue the Iranians raise of the USA having to apologize demonstrates that Obama's position is ridiculous. People are getting frustrated in not being able to respond to the fact that Obama is on a wrong course, as even demonstrated by Iran's demand for an apology, so there are a lot of straw man arguments going on, claims that my posting cannot be understood, digressions, resorting to going off issue on propaganda, etc. etc. etc. All of which apparently indicates that my position is correct. Sorry.

Last edited by WhatsLeft; 02-18-2009 at 03:36 PM. Reason: add "to the fact"
 
  #123  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:40 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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You still cannot claim a position without actually stating it. It makes the rest of your posts look like you're just poking fun at Obama personally. Which you've done to others here in this thread as well without stating if you feel he should apologize or not.

And even now, you're trying to conclude that you have stated it without proof of the fact to post it at the request of another debater. If you were going to try to weasel out of actually stating your position with speculation and clamor, maybe you should have posted this in the Forum Lobby. You clearly are not serious, and lack the maturity to just say if you think Obama should apologize.

Now you are saying that the USA should not apologize, but I thought this thread was about Obama? Nice try.
 
  #124  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
How do you start a thread without clearly stating your position? Then when asked to do so, you use tactics to demean others intelligence. These are the ways of a novice debater in my opinion. But we'll see where this leads..
I've explained again and again, that I began with satire. But I admit you have intelligence. So when you assert you cannot understand something that even someone in the eighth grade can -- there has to be a reason... and I think that reason is that you are the novice debate who has to resort to game playing to cover up what you cannot defend. That's called faking.
 
  #125  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:44 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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I'm done with reading your mind.
 
  #126  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:45 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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That is not required of me, but you are supposed to clarify by answering my one question. Still you have not. But I know this debating tactic all so well.
 
  #127  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:47 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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Until you can post where you have stated it clearly, or until you actually state it. You have no position, hence no debate.
 
  #128  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
You still cannot claim a position without actually stating it. It makes the rest of your posts look like you're just poking fun at Obama personally. Which you've done to others here in this thread as well without stating if you feel he should apologize or not.
Then after you asked for a statement of the position, I stated in post #81 and others thereafter, but each time you claimed the position was not there. You are faking!!! You are kidding yourself in pretending my position isn't stated in this thread. You are just looking for a way to have strife with me. And you think seeing the mere bubbles of your own words makes them true.
 
  #129  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:52 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Should Obama Apologize?
Answer your own question. Right now.

Let me ask you: WhatsLeft, do you think that Obama should apologize or not? Yes or no -is that hard to do?
 
  #130  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
Until you can post where you have stated it clearly, or until you actually state it. You have no position, hence no debate.
I've stated the position again and again, but even if an angel from heaven pointed it out to you where it was, you would deny it... Denial isn't debating... it's trying to cover up that you can't defend your position.
 
  #131  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:56 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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^ That's not an answer to my question, yes or no?
 
  #132  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:56 PM
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Okay folks, move on . . .
 
  #133  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
Answer your own question. Right now.

Let me ask you: WhatsLeft, do you think that Obama should apologize or not? Yes or no -is that hard to do?
Let me ask you: Krahmaan, if I say that Obama apologizing makes him and the USA look foolish and ridiculous and one of the preconditions for talks with Iran should be no apology, as I have stated in the thread more than once, does that mean yes or no -- is answering that hard. Yet, these are only some of the things I have said in indicating my position... like how Iran would use the apology to play Obama as they already have.
 
  #134  
Old 02-18-2009, 03:58 PM
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I'm not going to say it again folks. I do not want to have to babysit this thread. Move on.
 
  #135  
Old 02-18-2009, 04:16 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Let me ask you: Krahmaan, if I say that Obama apologizing makes him and the USA look foolish and ridiculous and one of the preconditions for talks with Iran should be no apology, as I have stated in the thread more than once, does that mean yes or no -- is answering that hard. Yet, these are only some of the things I have said in indicating my position... like how Iran would use the apology to play Obama as they already have.
I see a no in this post, so I guess I'll have to just assume that that's the answer to my question. Still sounds like speculation to me, but it looks you've been bailed out of answering my question directly. I respect the Mods here, and I didn't really like how you came off to one of them here.

Onward, now that that's over. Who's up for coffee? I feel if Obama does apologize to Iran, it could help to start a healing process between our two countries. But it does take backbone to do such a thing, even if he feels that Bush and the United States weren't ever in the wrong.

IMO, if Obama does this it will show good character.

(back to the coffee thing, I could use a cup!)
 
  #136  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
Still sounds like speculation to me, but it looks you've been bailed out of answering my question directly. I respect the Mods here, and I didn't really like how you came off to one of them here.
I noted a moderator objection was invalid based on context. Then, you tried to establish a false perception of the context, apparently in the hope you could thereby have me banned. By asking for a direct answer, rather than admitting it was totally unnecessary, you were trying to falsely reinforce the perception that it actually was necessary. All a scheme but completely transparent. It just shows how important it is to you to try to get rid of me.

BTW, my last post was made simultaneously with Cricket's. When she was typing hers, I was typing mine. I didn't see hers, until after mine was already on the board. I moved on -- but you seem to insist we carry on.

Last edited by WhatsLeft; 02-18-2009 at 07:36 PM.
 
  #137  
Old 02-18-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
I noted a moderator objection was invalid based on context. Then, you tried to establish a false perception of the context, apparently in the hope you could thereby have me banned. By asking for a direct answer, rather than admitting it was totally unnecessary, you were trying to falsely reinforce the perception that it actually was necessary. All a scheme but completely transparent. It just shows how important it is to you to try to get rid of me.

BTW, my last post was made simultaneously with Cricket's. When she was typing hers, I was typing mine. I didn't see hers, until after mine was already on the board. I moved on -- but you seem to insist we carry on.
Did krahmaan have a gun to your head when you posted this?
 
  #138  
Old 02-18-2009, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Did krahmaan have a gun to your head when you posted this?
The problem is -- no one can give legitimate answers to the positions I posted. So you all do what you can to get off issue and at least try to make me look bad somehow. It's an indication of who can debate and who cannot, and of what is the truth on whether there should be talks without preconditions. But you guys love Obama, no matter what, so the facts do not really matter to you, and neither does genuine discussion.

To answer the question -- no, there was no gun. He was trying to hold a scheme to my head. That's one way to debate, when all other alternatives are gone. Now you are playing the scheme as well.
 
  #139  
Old 02-18-2009, 08:42 PM
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