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Old 11-19-2009, 10:15 AM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
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Health Reform: Compare the two plans here.

The House passed their version of the plan and now Harry Reid has presented the Senate version of the plan.

So what's the difference between the two?

Take a look here and find out. Select from the 'Individual Mandate' box in the left sidebar and see how they stack up concerning certain issues such as abortion, illegal immigrants getting health coverage, long term care, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html?hp#tab=0

What happens next? The two plans are melded into one, both the Senate and the House vote on it (both must pass it) and once it passes it is sent to the president to be signed into law and jammed down our throats whether we like it or not.

And if you don't like the health care reform plan and decide to not buy health insurance, you will be fined.

According to the House version, you will be fined a portion of your income - but only if you file a tax return. What about those who never even file?

If you do not pay the fines, they will continue to add up. There appears to be no high-end limit in the House version. They'll continue to slap you with a fine of 2.5% of your yearly income each year you file and don't have health insurance. The Senate version has a high-end limit of $2,250 per family.

But what happens if you never pay the fines?

Will the IRS confiscate everything you own? Will you be thrown into debtor's prison, which, I thought, was done away with years ago?

When people pay those fines, where does their money go?

Both plans would cover 80% of a retiree's medical claims beginning at $15,000, with a top limit of $90,000. The Senate version will only cover that through 2013, while the House version will cover it from 2013 to 2015.

Retiree's are older folks, and their bodies aren't as vibrant as the younger folks and they will need more care as they get older.

So where's the money supposed to come from to cover that? This will only place the U.S. further into debt as we borrow more and more from foreign sources. It's not like we have a surplus to tap into.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions and I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on in Washington, D.C., not to mention a lot of ignorance. There are too many politicians waving magic wands.

And I haven't even gotten to the way they think they are going to pay for this plan, which, by the way, after implementation will still leave millions of Americans without health coverage...

God help us all.

Last edited by Allen Farlow; 11-19-2009 at 10:19 AM.
 
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:43 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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I love the exemption part:
Exemptions: "people who can show financial hardship." NO DETAILS

Even in a very social country like France we don't have fines to pay, if the people benefits from our health care plan but are not covered, they don't pay from their incomes they just need to pay on their incomes taxes at the end of the year.

What's wrong with this US system? Penalize people because the lawmakers decide to?

How democratic is this if you take away freedom?

On a very important subject like the health care system, people should vote by referundum, not let the elite decide for us.
 
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:03 PM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
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Correction to my above post: The Senate bill must be first passed by the Senate before the two versions can be combined into the final version. The Senate has not yet voted on their version.

The original 13 colonies became the United States Of America because of excessive taxation by the King of England.

Prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson was ill and unable to attend a meeting of the Virginia delegates, so he wrote down his thoughts and had them sent to be read at the meeting. What he had to say is notable, especially concerning taxation by the King, and had a lot to do with American becoming America. You may read his words here:

A Summary View Of The Rights Of British America

Excessive and improper taxation may be the cause of states seceeding from the union once again.

"Can any one reason be assigned why 160,000 electors in the island of Great Britain should give law to four millions in the states of America, every individual of whom is equal to every individual of them, in virtue, in understanding and in bodily strength? Were this to be admitted, instead of being a free people, as we have hitherto supposed,
and mean to continue ourselves, we should suddenly be found the slaves, not of one, but of 160,000 tyrants, distinguished, too, from all others by this singular circumstance, that they are removed from the reach of fear, the only restraining motive which may withhold the hand of a tyrant." Thomas Jefferson

The People, by the tens of thousands, have not once but at least twice gone to the National Mall in front of the U.S. Capitol to protest the health care reform bills our Congress insists on shoving down our throats, clearly not giving heed to the desires of their constituents.

The current health care system may not be perfect but it may be a far sight better than that we will have after this bill is signed into law by the president. This bill stands a very good chance of pushing further health care providers out of the business, making it ever more difficult for Americans to get the medical care any civilized society should expect.
 
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:13 PM
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Jim Gillum Jim Gillum is offline
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Once upon a time there was a guy named Hitler.....
He wanted to tell everyone how to think and what to think....
Hmmmmm.......
 
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:40 PM
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John Scott John Scott is offline
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Quote:
Require that most Americans have a minimum level of health insurance or else pay a penalty.
Damn it, can't they even be honest about it and call it a tax.
 
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:57 PM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gillum View Post
Once upon a time there was a guy named Hitler.....
He wanted to tell everyone how to think and what to think....
Hmmmmm.......
Jim, is that comment directed at myself or at the government apparatchik?
 
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