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  #1  
Old 10-15-2008, 01:54 PM
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Torture - The American way

Today it was reveiled in the Washington Post that the Bush administraton actually endorsed the use of torture against "al-Qaeda suspects"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101403331.html

Also, Scott Horton reports today that PBS may have refused to nationally air a controversial documentary on the use of torture by the U.S. government in order to protect its funding. Here you can see that documentary;

http://www.torturingdemocracy.org/

I've seen it (all 3 parts of it) and to be honest, it made me sick to my stomach. To me the American government has lost all credibility to claim their moral high grounds, they are just another rogue regime run by war criminals. Not any better than Saddam Hussein's regime, Pol Pot's, or Idi Amin's for that matter, they have proven to be at the same par as those they critisize and go to war with.

...but that's just my 0.2 as a European who's entire family was detained in one of Hitler's concentration camps during ww2.
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:44 PM
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*Scratch my whole post. It's a video from the point of view of the enemy. Why argue with that?

"Not only did those mean Americans keep me from killing those who allah appointed me to kill, but then they made me stand up for a really long time. I mean, not as long as, say, a WalMart cashier on any given day, but still a really long time. "

The world shudders.

Last edited by South; 10-15-2008 at 03:53 PM.
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:29 PM
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"Point of view of the enemy"?!

South, this video is made by Americans, and something else, not all arabs are "enemies". You sound like a racist. The point of view that torture is a war crime is ONLY in America questioned, your reply is shameful and you don't even realize how shameful. Your nothing but a torture apologist but I have news for you, you are a minority in your own country. Did you know that America convicted Japanese torturers for waterboarding Americans after ww2? Your hypocricy has no bounderies, shame on you.


 
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:35 PM
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*Again, I'm scratching the three or four paragraphs I just wrote.

I never said all Arabs were my enemy, I'm no racist, torture apologist, or hypocrite. That's the liberal tool of the season. Brand those who don't share your exact point of view with ugly sounding words (three tasty ones in this post alone) and that way your point of view sounds like the holy one.

I'll just say that if I ever do find myself in a prison camp and they torture me by yelling at me, making me stay up til I'm really sleepy and making me stand up for four hours I'll consider it a pretty good stay. That's what I was making little of is the announcers over the top drama when describing such mild things. I don't condone serious torture.

My lord the world has gone sensitive.
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:01 PM
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Ah, now we are making distinctions between "serious" and "not so serious" torture.

That sort of thinking sickens most people in the world South, and again, you don't even realize how serious this really is.

It's TORTURE South. T-O-R-T-U-R-E And it's a W-A-R-C-R-I-M-E.

YOUR USA convicted Japanese soldiers for warcrimes for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING IN WW2 and RIGHTLY SO!

YOUR LAWS FORBID IT, IT IS A CRIME. INTERNATIONAL LAWS FORBID IT, IT'S A CRIME.

What about if they steal from your house,...but only a little bit eh?? What about if they beat up your wife, but only a little bit eh??

You don't get it do you? It's a frikkin WAR CRIME.


There is NO EXCUSE FOR WAR CRIMES OR TORTURE South. NONE.

Americans died in ww2 to make an end to this crap, and now you defend it? Shame on you!
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:09 PM
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Summary of International and U.S. Law Prohibiting Torture and Other Ill-treatment of Persons in Custody:
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004.../usint8614.htm

Quote:
International and U.S. law prohibits torture and other ill-treatment of any person in custody in all circumstances. The prohibition applies to the United States during times of peace, armed conflict, or a state of emergency. Any person, whether a U.S. national or a non-citizen, is protected. It is irrelevant whether the detainee is determined to be a prisoner-of-war, a protected person, or a so-called “security detainee” or “unlawful combatant.” And the prohibition is in effect within the territory of the United States or any place anywhere U.S. authorities have control over a person. In short, the prohibition against torture and ill-treatment is absolute.

What is it in the above quote that you don't understand eh?
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Ah, now we are making distinctions between "serious" and "not so serious" torture.


Yes, I think everything has to be measured. Law works like that. Serious crimes...less serious crimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
That sort of thinking sickens most people in the world South, and again, you don't even realize how serious this really is.
It's TORTURE South. T-O-R-T-U-R-E And it's a W-A-R-C-R-I-M-E.


Honestly man, take it easy on me. I'm picking on the video, not torture as a concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
What about if they steal from your house,...but only a little bit eh?? What about if they beat up your wife, but only a little bit eh??


Well yeah. If you stole a newspaper from my lawn I'd react differently than you stealing my house blind. If you shoved my wife I'd react differently than you beating her bloody. Wouldn't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
You don't get it do you? It's a frikkin WAR CRIME.

There is NO EXCUSE FOR WAR CRIMES OR TORTURE South. NONE.

Americans died in ww2 to make an end to this crap, and now you defend it? Shame on you!
Americans entered WWII for a little broader reasons than that. I'm not arguing that torture is OK and yes, the law is the law. I just hold the personal opinion that it's kind of silly some of the things they put under the heading of "torture". It kind of diminishes the term "torture" IMO. The way cool breeze read the script on the video just emphasized that to me, that's all. I don't mean to upset you on something that clearly matters a lot to you.
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:36 PM
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I'll quote that line again, but this time I will highlite some parts you seem not to understand South...

Quote:
International and U.S. law prohibits torture and other ill-treatment of any person in custody in all circumstances. The prohibition applies to the United States during times of peace, armed conflict, or a state of emergency. Any person, whether a U.S. national or a non-citizen, is protected. It is irrelevant whether the detainee is determined to be a prisoner-of-war, a protected person, or a so-called “security detainee” or “unlawful combatant.” And the prohibition is in effect within the territory of the United States or any place anywhere U.S. authorities have control over a person. In short, the prohibition against torture and ill-treatment is absolute.

Law is law South, there is no such thing as a "little bit" law. What is it in the word; ABSOLUTE that you don't understand?
 
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Law is law South,
And I agreed, using those exact words.
 
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2008, 12:29 PM
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actually when u done anything unethical it should be doing a lot of problem !
 
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