Digitalpoint Forum & Shawn Hogan Sued by EBay for Fraud

[sitetutor]

Regardless of what anybody thinks, Shawn is innocent until proven guilty. If some of you want to see him in jail or picking up litter on the side of the freeways, that is your issue. If he is guilty and gets convicted, it will not change the fact that these days there are 1,000s of tutorials about cookie stuffing out there and that the number of webmasters doing it keeps on growing. Shawn may be the tip of the iceberg if in fact he did it, but the issue is a lot larger than him, so I do not believe in wasting attention to his case only. If you are really dedicated to do something about cookie stuffing, you need to think a little bit bigger than only about his case.

I wish him the best, and if he did it, he needs to pay. And hopefully turn the bad into something good.

[Luckyman]

The "stuffed cookies" issue no doubt would have landed him in trouble with ebay but hope Shawn would come out of the chaos sooner

[MajorTom]

AFAIK - a cookie can't be stuffed via a remote image on a forum.

Cookies can only originate and be read from the domains they were set on. Even if a black hat programmer were using libcurl with cookies enabled, the cookie file would be stored on the programmer's server and not on the intended victim's browser.

Second, if the black hat were trying to accomplish pulling a remote page and setting a cookie via Javascript/Ajax createElement and appendChild functions, that's a bust because no forum software allows posting of Javascript and if he tried to use a PHP generated image to load the Javascript code, it can't be done because the content-type is set to image/jpeg or whatever image format and trying to output html/javascript would throw a php error.

So how do cookie stuffers do it ? Cookies are stuffed using 1x1 pixel iFrames. One of the cheesiest methods known to developers. They build a page with a hidden iFrame and put that page into rotation in autosurf or traffic exchange programs like TS25 or TrafficPods, LinkReferral, ClixSense, etc... Using ClixSense, a stuffer could pay $5 for 1000 hits to his page and 1000 stuffs. Rinse, repeat and you're stuffing your way to profits.

I'm sure Shawn probably thought he could just say "It wasn't me" that put that iFrame with my affiliate code there, it was someone I banned from my forum who is out to get me. Needless to say, it's no suprise that lazy programmers who get a taste of success at a young age want to party like rockstars and will take shortcuts to profits so they can spend their days and nights with bongs, booze and babes.

My opinion is if eBay really has solid evidence (like a history of payments) they should throw the book at Shawn and make an example of him for all the lazy black hat's who want something for nothing.

btw, has anybody noticed how much spam has been on the decline since "Spam King" Edward Davidson was busted and commit suicide? Same with DDOS attacks since Gregory King was sentenced to two years in prison ?

Tossing the book at Hogan would certainly cause a lot of these black hat kiddies to think twice.

[minstrel]

Exactly. eBay didn't lauch a lawsuit withou following the paper trail. They're not newbie amateurs.

[MajorTom]

What I'm wondering is if this all has to do with the recent class action lawsuit against Commission Junction? In the paperwork I received in the mail it stated that the suit was related to the theft of commissions from other affiliates as far back as 2003.

Any way you slice it, it's still theft, plain and simple. It is amazing how some people fail to realize that those losses are not just sucked up by eBay but they are passed off as fees for sellers, losses for investors, layoffs for employees, etc. It's not a victimless crime as the fanboys at DigitalPoint are claiming on the thread over there.

[C.Whyte]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

What I'm wondering is if this all has to do with the recent class action lawsuit against Commission Junction?

You know what, I was thinking the exact same thing! *Great minds*

Since eBay left CJ, maybe they got jealous and wanted to get some action going themselves.

I definitely wish Shawn and DP the best on this one, I doubt he meant anything harmful by it... although I do believe it's wrong.

My

[Zap]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

btw, has anybody noticed how much spam has been on the decline since "Spam King" Edward Davidson was busted and commit suicide? Same with DDOS attacks since Gregory King was sentenced to two years in prison ?

Are you kidding here?

Spam on the decline? I'm seeing the opposite with my own e-mail accounts and those of my clients.

[kristeejo]

The fact that I've had to upgrade my mail server TWICE in the past six months says that's not true. ; ) Everyone thinks my penis needs an upgrade.

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by Zap

Are you kidding here?

Spam on the decline? I'm seeing the opposite with my own e-mail accounts and those of my clients.

Originally Posted by kristeejo

The fact that I've had to upgrade my mail server TWICE in the past six months says that's not true. ; ) Everyone thinks my penis needs an upgrade.

You might try using an anonymous email service such as mailinator when you register for dodgy sites. Also, you can always switch off your domains "catch all" address or set it to bounce email addressed to a non-existant user.

@kristeejo - btw, how do you upgrade your mail server??? I'm running qmail on all 4 of my dedicated servers and have never had to "upgrade"? If you're having that bad of a problem, perhaps you should consult a spam expert or change your email address.

oh and this thread is about cookie stuffing, not spam. I was making an analogy, not trying to take a thread off topic.

[kristeejo]

I have smarter mail and the upgrades have it fixed now.

[MajorTom]

I hate spammers. I have my mail servers set so strict after one of my client sites got mail bombed last year.

btw, kristeejo, I quoted your comment earlier in this thread on my most recent blogpost. ;-)

[sitetutor]

Regardless of what the truth is, one may also argue that the reason Shawn has been picked out of 100k + alleged cookie stuffers out there, because he has a forum with 200k members and suing him is a move to send a message to the entire webmaster world.
I'm not here to defend cookie stuffing at all, but I do believe that convicting him has limited results on the overall problem. Sure, many will get scared and not do it, but those who know what they're doing will continue and get even better at it while watching 3 guys take the fall for the whole "industry".
I would also be interested in seeing some sort of numbers on how much cookie stuffers really steal from other affiliates and what the chances are that your cookie gets overwritten by someone inserting theirs into your browser by you clicking their sites.

Regardless, eBay has done nothing but fill their own pockets, which is cool, but Shawn has helped many webmasters out there. So has this forum. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. But the way I look at this, it's going to be all about what the lawyers work out and from what I have been reading on DP, jury selection will make a huge difference watching all the "Screw ebay, screw the law, stuff cookies Shawn" vs. "He is guilty, let's hang him" posts.

If anything good comes out of this, it should be that awareness is raised and people get educated. But how making 3 guys pay for the little impact they might have compared to all those doing it, I don't get.

[minstrel]

Theft is theft. The fact that he told John about it pretty much tells us that he knew what he was doing and thought it was easy money. Regardless of whether he's a career criminal or a stand-out citizen, he's committed a crime.

[Cricket]

If y'all want to discuss the issue of cookie stuffing, that is fine. However, I will not allow this thread to be used to discuss Shawn. We are not the judge, and we are not a jury. The fact is, he is innocent until proven guilty and either way, as a valued member of this community, we will respect his privacy accordingly.

[yenerich]

I read in DP that someone points to a blog's comment from shawn where he says its legal and interesting to do all this cookie stuff... so, how know?

[Cricket]

This topic is now closed.