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  #21  
Old 09-04-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisCD View Post
I would just take it out of my portfolio or start a 2nd portfolio and show before and after shots. :O)
You are correct with this point, CD. There are a few sites we originally created for clients, but cannot show a prospective client due to the less than desirable changes made by the original clients to date. Sigh.

It's like accounting: I used to do my own accounting (well, at least most of it), but eventually I just gave my accountant everything. I decided for all the time I was spending on accounting, I could be earning design/development money. Besides, the accountant did the work at least three times faster - so I figured I was actually saving money. He just smiled when I handed over the reins.
 

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  #22  
Old 01-12-2016, 08:01 AM
rf-harris rf-harris is offline
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If you are good enough with developing a custom website then there is certainly not any use of making a website using a CMS but if you are not into this developing thing and want to save money on getting started your website then I think there is no great harm in choosing a top CMS like wordpress or joomla
 
  #23  
Old 01-12-2016, 11:03 AM
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HCFGrizzly HCFGrizzly is offline
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Interesting points. But we also have to think about the budget the client has. Almost 90% of the people now want a website with an admin panel "where they can easily modify the frontend if they want". If you will tell them you can build a website from scratch without using a CMS but it will cost them more I don`t think many will like the idea.
Building with a CMS has the advantage that the website can be built in less time. Sure, the fastest route is not always the best one (in fact it rarely is) but good luck explaining that to the clients.
With the success that WP is having I come across less and less people who want a static webpage.

LE: I find it funny how the author of the article is bashing CMSs but she is using WordPress for her website.

Last edited by HCFGrizzly; 01-12-2016 at 11:07 AM.
 
  #24  
Old 01-12-2016, 08:50 PM
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HTMLBasicTutor HTMLBasicTutor is offline
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Funny that you two bumped this thread.

I just got an email today from someone who went with someone else for their site and now they want SEO advise.

Faster and easier for the web designer/developer is not always better for the client.

Lately these are the problems presented to me:
  • Using an ecommerce theme and hacking it for a standard website (not a blog or ecommerce site).
  • Adding plugins coming out of the ying yang to supposedly make the sites SEO friendly.
  • Adding a Sitemap via plugin that was broken from day one.
  • Leaving "experimental" pages in the database and letting the search engines find them.
  • Not knowing how to get Wordpress to create search engine friendly page urls w/o a plugin.
  • Using a slideshow plugin that is not cross browser compatible and having the customer accuse me of messing up the slideshow.
  • Creating a site that depends on JavaScript to show the navigation.
  • No site map (notice the different spelling) so visitors and all bots can get around the site if need be.
  • Not making sure the Wordpress installation is secure from the get go.
There are few of my personal experiences of when not to use a CMS.

BTW: If you know how, creating a search engine friendly static site is not anymore expensive to the client than a designer buying a theme, hacking it, buying plugins to do what they have no knowledge of how to do without plugins and then having the cheek to charge the customer a premium price.

With a static site you are in way more control of everything. You can add a CMS for the content only if they just don't understand how easy it is to copy what has already been done with the initial content.

And before you note it, yes I have sites using Wordpress but they are blogs and I hate trying to post to them.
 
  #25  
Old 01-13-2016, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post

Lately these are the problems presented to me:
  • Using an ecommerce theme and hacking it for a standard website (not a blog or ecommerce site).
  • Adding plugins coming out of the ying yang to supposedly make the sites SEO friendly.
  • Adding a Sitemap via plugin that was broken from day one.
  • Leaving "experimental" pages in the database and letting the search engines find them.
  • Not knowing how to get Wordpress to create search engine friendly page urls w/o a plugin.
  • Using a slideshow plugin that is not cross browser compatible and having the customer accuse me of messing up the slideshow.
  • Creating a site that depends on JavaScript to show the navigation.
  • No site map (notice the different spelling) so visitors and all bots can get around the site if need be.
  • Not making sure the Wordpress installation is secure from the get go.

.
I would be a bit ticked off if any of those things happened on a site I paid for. More than one, all to common, is just plain awful.
 
  #26  
Old 01-13-2016, 06:15 AM
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HCFGrizzly HCFGrizzly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
Funny that you two bumped this thread.


Lately these are the problems presented to me:
  • Using an ecommerce theme and hacking it for a standard website (not a blog or ecommerce site).
  • Adding plugins coming out of the ying yang to supposedly make the sites SEO friendly.
  • Adding a Sitemap via plugin that was broken from day one.
  • Leaving "experimental" pages in the database and letting the search engines find them.
  • Not knowing how to get Wordpress to create search engine friendly page urls w/o a plugin.
  • Using a slideshow plugin that is not cross browser compatible and having the customer accuse me of messing up the slideshow.
  • Creating a site that depends on JavaScript to show the navigation.
  • No site map (notice the different spelling) so visitors and all bots can get around the site if need be.
  • Not making sure the Wordpress installation is secure from the get go.
There are few of my personal experiences of when not to use a CMS.
I get it, you don`t like CMSs, I also don`t like to use them for plain websites (I have long discussions with clients all the time).
I also said that faster is not the best route, but if the client wants a 200$ - 300$ WordPress website with an admin panel what do you do? Do you refuse the project?
The majority of the problems you have presented are issues with the developers not knowing how to develop. not with the CMS.
Let`s take for example your last point: Is it WordPress`s fault that the developer didn`t secure the installation from day 1?

Also, I tell all of my clients that they should only modify the content and if they want to install new plugins they should contact me first.

I want to say it again, I`m not a fan of CMSs, but people seem to exaggerate. Blaming CMSs for the problem "developers" have is like driving a car of a cliff and then blaming the car for your accident.
 
  #27  
Old 01-13-2016, 08:18 PM
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well done html, hope you keep posting blogs like this. infact even i gave up cms for our business website
 
  #28  
Old 01-19-2016, 04:17 AM
Annie Starks Annie Starks is offline
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Sorry if it sounds too rude, but it seems like some web developers are afraid of further CMS development... Worthy rival!
 
  #29  
Old 01-19-2016, 04:45 AM
LiquidwebCoupons LiquidwebCoupons is offline
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Nice post about whether use CMS or not. I think when using CMS sites, Security vulnerability is high. And also as a designer we need to maintain our clients sites for free of cost.

We have lost several hours of work without getting any reward or money.
 
  #30  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LiquidwebCoupons View Post
And also as a designer we need to maintain our clients sites for free of cost.

We have lost several hours of work without getting any reward or money.
I don't know what your business model is like, but it sounds like it needs a critical review.
 
  #31  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:12 AM
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selena.jo selena.jo is offline
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Originally Posted by Annie Starks View Post
Sorry if it sounds too rude, but it seems like some web developers are afraid of further CMS development... Worthy rival!
Guess it's not a problem for experienced web developer to find a project to work on, regardless of whether they have to build a website with CMS or using HTML/CSS. Anyway, the problem of using/not using a CMS looks somewhat far-fetched to me.
 
  #32  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:20 AM
Annie Starks Annie Starks is offline
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Originally Posted by selena.jo View Post
Guess it's not a problem for experienced web developer to find a project to work on, regardless of whether they have to build a website with CMS or using HTML/CSS. Anyway, the problem of using/not using a CMS looks somewhat far-fetched to me.
Yep and a client who wants to save money will go to something like templatemonster.com or another templates company and will get everything he\she wants fast and easy...
 
  #33  
Old 01-19-2016, 07:37 AM
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selena.jo selena.jo is offline
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Originally Posted by Annie Starks View Post
Yep and a client who wants to save money will go to something like templatemonster.com or another templates company and will get everything he\she wants fast and easy...
That's an option for lazybones, imo. I guess to each their own.
 
  #34  
Old 01-22-2016, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Annie Starks View Post
Yep and a client who wants to save money will go to something like templatemonster.com or another templates company and will get everything he\she wants fast and easy...
They are not the easiest templates to edit either. Which is why I can usually tell when someone buys one from them using everything the same way it came, from those that take the time to custom edit the features and layout.
 
  #35  
Old 01-25-2016, 02:19 AM
Annie Starks Annie Starks is offline
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Originally Posted by LMD View Post
They are not the easiest templates to edit either. Which is why I can usually tell when someone buys one from them using everything the same way it came, from those that take the time to custom edit the features and layout.
That's interesting... My colleagues and I bought some themes there and everything was ok. But of course, I can't speak for all the themes there
 
  #36  
Old 01-25-2016, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Annie Starks View Post
That's interesting... My colleagues and I bought some themes there and everything was ok. But of course, I can't speak for all the themes there
Firstly, let me say, I've used many of their themes in the past, so I'm not dissing them at all.

Secondly, by saying "edit", I actually should have said "customize". And the result of getting one device view looking good isn't difficult (say, desktop monitor), but the resulting "view" on other devices (tablet and smart phone) can be difficult and frustrating to coordinate with the desktop view.

I don't know much about other theme sites, but TM themes are over-bloated with code, IMO.

So you have to weigh the pros and cons of any theme purchase. And, you never know how easy, or difficult it is to customize them until you actually buy it and get working with it.

2 cents
 
  #37  
Old 03-25-2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by david wiggins View Post
still I see no reason to abandon the CMS
Why is that?
 
  #38  
Old 04-10-2016, 11:44 PM
Rob Schneider Rob Schneider is offline
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Nice article but can you suggest an alternate for it if not using CMS?
 
  #39  
Old 04-16-2016, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCFGrizzly View Post
I get it, you don`t like CMSs, I also don`t like to use them for plain websites (I have long discussions with clients all the time).
I also said that faster is not the best route, but if the client wants a 200$ - 300$ WordPress website with an admin panel what do you do? Do you refuse the project?
The majority of the problems you have presented are issues with the developers not knowing how to develop. not with the CMS.
Let`s take for example your last point: Is it WordPress`s fault that the developer didn`t secure the installation from day 1?

Also, I tell all of my clients that they should only modify the content and if they want to install new plugins they should contact me first.

I want to say it again, I`m not a fan of CMSs, but people seem to exaggerate. Blaming CMSs for the problem "developers" have is like driving a car of a cliff and then blaming the car for your accident.
I totally agree with this, your words in the last paragraph explain things at a very exact way.

My company also provides web design and development service, and we have been long time ago leaving CMS like Wordpress or Joomla. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just not suitable for most types of my clients. My own website is also built by Wordpress.

Most of clients have no whatsoever technical knowledge about web programming, all they want is their websites running well without any maintenance or work from their part. This is impossible as Wordpress requires updates, plugins incompatibility, and other maintenance tasks.

For most clients, it's just too much work. Not to mention the UI of Wordpress or Joomla is somewhat confusing for many beginner users.

BUT... If the clients have someone to back them up for technical stuff related to their websites, or they know the consequences of using Wordpress, or they aren't careless and ready to be involved, then it's okay to go with CMS.

In short, nothing wrong with the CMS, they are great with sophisticated features. It's just not everyone is appropriate with it.
 
  #40  
Old 05-23-2016, 09:51 AM
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No problem with CMSs. They are useful. The problem is in most cases this means WP or Joomla. And in most cases for 5 pages website?!?!? This is stupid! And people do it because they can't make websites!

I could make a website on notepad within my 1st month of web designing!
 
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