I don't know it.
Okay, yeah, that one is true, but I am sure I could pick it up very quickly. I did some basic stuff with CSS positioning back in the day, and brusched it off due to the short comings. While I am sure a lot has improved since then in CSS, there are still some fundermental reasons why I think tables are the way to go:
I've been doing a lot of surfing lately, all through Google. I love the "cached" feature, which highlights on page the terms I searched for. If you ever used the "cached" option, you'll know that the page loads with a disclaimer from Google, above the page. What a mess when a page uses CSS!
Also, not sure about this one, but what about search engines that leave a little bar at the top or bottom, via frames? You know, those bars that let you get back easily to their search engine? Not sure if this would screw up CSS, but I suspect so.
And that my friends is why I stick with tables for now.
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I find that some things are easier to get the way I want with tables and some things are easier with css positioning. I basically do whatever I feel like doing at the time.
Jazzee, do you stick to one method per project, or do you mix and match? The reason I ask is because I am currious how you go about maintaining, if you mix and match per project.
We've got everything templated through DreamWeaver. We find a lot of clients want changes that affect so many pages, it gets very time consuming without templates. I guess CSS could be templated through DW too now that I think about it... but for now I haven't found anything that tables won't do, that I needed to get done. Maybe I am not such a techno geek after all... I do use technology sparingly, and as best fitted for my specific needs.
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Jazzee, do you stick to one method per project, or do you mix and match? The reason I ask is because I am currious how you go about maintaining, if you mix and match per project.
It depends on the project. Right now I am working on a site using both tables and CSS positioning. Most of the site uses tables, but at the top of each page, they want a bunch of images positioned in such a way that using CSS positioning was easier to get them where they needed to be.
I don't use Dreamweaver, I use Notepad. I find it easier to change many pages at one time when using CSS rather than tables.
I use to do every website in tables. It was fine ... yadda yaddaa... then I discovered the use of CSS positioning. I'll never go back to tables.
There are a few reasons why:
Editing the code is such a breeze. With tables you have to look for the right td or tr. With css you just look for the right div. The div's will be easier to find because the code is seperated from the content.
Changing the website without changing the html. If a person knows CSS well enough to design a full CSS website, he or she can change the entire layout without changing one bit of html. That's attractive for people who like to do multiple versions of their site, or for those who change their websites often. [ re: www.csszengarden.com ]
Aaaaaand finally... validity is much more easily accomplished through pure CSS than through masses of tables.
Well, I've heard some reasons as to why using CSS from the designers perspective is easier... but I am talking about commercial viability and professionality. Sure, CSS is easier for us who design the sites, but I am talking about the access to the site by the audience.
When I go to a page via google cache, and text appears on top of the Google notice, I turn around and leave immediatelly, unless I HAVE to be there. Testing CSS seems like it would be such a total pain, different resolutions is one thing, but we are talking many other factors (windows that are not maximised, frames, etc).
I guess my main question was to see if there are ways around things like Google disclaimer, frames from other pages, etc. So many people are using CSS, I figured there would have to be a way around, but I am not hearing one yet... Are you CSS guys/gals ignoring some situations?
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i just like it because it sets up things more universal. If i decide i want to change the layout of my page i go edit one css file instead of going in and moving tables around.
now say i want to move the side nav over to the right, takes one change of file and it would work for the whole site. Here is an example of the front page with the side nav. note the same code for each page. that is the power of css http://www.commonamerica.org/changed.html
Did anybody mention that if you allow the user to change font size, the CSS layout is much more flexible? And the more CSS you use, the faster is the download of the page, since there is less code? We have used tables, but we do all the webdesign stuff in CSS for a year or so.
CSS is very easy to learn and if used correctly, can be used to make something much better than tables can.
The problem is that people are afraid to switch because of lack of support, although, if everyone did use CSS, then browser developers would be forced to create standards compliant browsers, and everyone would be happy.
CSS is very easy to learn and if used correctly, can be used to make something much better than tables can.
The problem is that people are afraid to switch because of lack of support, although, if everyone did use CSS, then browser developers would be forced to create standards compliant browsers, and everyone would be happy.
You hit it right on the nail there. Excellent point
We test all our tables for font resizes, nothing difficult there... but yeah, font resizes can screw up a design.
I dunno about more people using CSS for better support. Sure, for Mozilla, Opera, and them guys, but not IE. IE is so far behind on everything (take darn PNGs with transparencies for example... looooong time around, IE pukes over them till this day), and I suspect that more CSS usage would do little to get M$ to put some work into IE.
CSS sounds like it would have more flexibility, but anything we needed to do so far can be accomplished with tables... than again our main selling point is creating sites accessible to everyone, so we don't go much into the bells and whistles of design.
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