Problems in the Web Design Industry

[Costin Trifan]

Originally Posted by businessservicesuk

The site (idea) would not be a place where bidding for tenders took place. More a directory of designers, providing lots of useful information.

Basically it would work like this

A client want to use the services of a designer
They visit the site, find someone they want to use.
They then fill in an online form, this is then checked for relevance and forwarded to the designer.
If the designer accepts the work they inform us
After the work is completed, the client fill out a customer survey and leaves a feedback score.
We then check out the site and give our own feedback score.
An average is taken and this is listed on the site.

A system like this will give true visibility to the industry, currently their is none or very little.

Well, I think this is a great idea.

Good luck!

[businessservicesuk]

The chances of me getting the time for that and other projects are pretty slim. Maybe by making them public someone else will provide the service, the industry certainly needs it.

I also like competition, it is healthy, if you back your ability its not a bad thing.

[Jul]

Wow! What a thread! I have read all posts carefully and I must react.

The amount of low cost products on the market continues to rise.

How do you know that? I will more then appreciate if you provide me with an original statistic.

The general public are unaware that the majority of low cost websites will never amount to anything, due to their poor table based coding, poor design and the total lack of optimization

Well, table based coding is still valid and optimization isn't must.

The market is flooded with poorly or part trained designers who deceive clients by owning good looking websites or by making elaborate sales pitches in forums.

Just like in any other industry there are more and less professionals in our field. Just because you don't see them on this forum doesn't mean they do not exist.

The sites are designed using basic HTML coding, this practice is outdate and most certainly not search engine friendly

Design is for people, not SE.

Search engines like to see an on-site sitemap, most sites do not have one.

Again, as I said before – sites are being designed for people, not SE. If users do not need or client doesn't want the site map, then it probably is Ok. Unless SEO is part of the project.

Web designers add their own sitewide link throughout a site they have designed, this is an outrageous practice, one that is carried out for no other reason than to enhance the rankings of the designers website.

I'm looking at my monitor and there is Samsung logo on its panel... and my printer has Canon logo on it... and this doesn't make me sick. Why are you going so crazy about this?

How justifiable is spending 1-3 days carving a wooden plaque with a potential clients name in it as a mock-up just for them to turn around and tell you that its not really what they were looking for?

Include a paragraph in your terms of service, which limits number of mockups, it's that simple!

* Petition Adobe (And other software companies) to include watermarks on their trial versions - Thus eliminating Businesses Building off trials.
* Launch an all out Joint campaign with other professional design firms to spread the word & post a "Design Standards" Form on each of their sites so that Potential clients can educate them self & be prepared.
* Get over 10,000 supporting signatures from designers across the globe in support of a Media (Television) campaign to express our concerns & let the public know that we work for a living too.

Let me tell you that – the job of web designers is to prepare designs for their clients, not to "cultivate" ideal clients.

A client want to use the services of a designer
They visit the site, find someone they want to use.
They then fill in an online form, this is then checked for relevance and forwarded to the designer.
If the designer accepts the work they inform us
After the work is completed, the client fill out a customer survey and leaves a feedback score.
We then check out the site and give our own feedback score.
An average is taken and this is listed on the site.

A system like this will give true visibility to the industry, currently their is none or very little.

Do you really truly plan to make a web site, which will track all designers and clients? LOL
I can't believe that you guys are serious.


I have a very good advice for people who think that the world around them needs improvements. Nobody is perfect. We all can be better. All of us, INCLUDING YOU. Before making such dramatic conclusions, let glaze at ourselves one more time and ask: Are we as good as we think we are? Do we have rights to decide who and how should appear in SE indexes? Can we take this responsibility? Finally, the advice I promised is "Don't change the world to fit YOU, but improve you inside of it, and the universe will become better".

[scorpionagency]

Jul, Looks like you commented on 2 of mine, so in reply:

Jul: Include a paragraph in your terms of service, which limits number of mockups, it's that simple!

I already stated that it is in my Terms of Service & My disclaimers... I also stated that I turn them down if they don't adhere to my listed terms.. this is not a problem for me... It's simply demeaning to the industry itself...

Jul: Let me tell you that – the job of web designers is to prepare designs for their clients, not to "cultivate" ideal clients.

I am aware what a designers job is within contractual boundaries. As far as cultivating Ideal clients, I think that it is very important to turn a client into a long term repeat / referral - Thus making them "Ideal" as a combined collective (Cultivation) of your overall client list.

However the ones that have become so hard headed that they refuse to cooperate along with using manipulating nickel & dimming strategies due to past client designer relations that trained them it was ok to be that way, I tend to pass them up & let another designer deal with them. Why? Mainly because I can & I am not forced to lower my own standards in order secure a project that is 80% below the average & or my set rates.

Do I make exceptions from time to time? Yes, of course, within my terms of Service & contract the client agrees to a joint copyright (Their content / My design) for a discounted rate. The client has the choice later down the line to purchase full copyrights & have my design link removed.

Nice post by the way Jul... you seem to have covered a bit of each of our posts in your response.

[businessservicesuk]

Jul
I think your post has been the worst on the thread so far as your answers are total rubbish.

1. How do I know there are a lot of poor quality products on the market?
The amount of clients sites we inspect
The dross that fills every forums 'review' section

Web designers own sites are generally well optimised, however their clients are not. I understand most designers don't want to quote for work that could be viewed by the client as not necessary. This could lead to them losing the client at the negotiation stage.

Sidewide hyperlinking logos attached for the sole purpose of advertising and passing on juice are just the same as a label on a washing machine, yeah right, dream on.

A small line of text on 1 page would suffice, but we all know there would be no value in that.

I fully understand the frustrations of a designer, providing a mass of mock ups for clients who have no intention of using your services. How many come to me for SEO advice to then get someone else to provide it.... a lot

There are some problems in the web design industry, that are worthy of debate, for a person to say there are no issues and everything is fine, well you not telling the truth.

[Jul]

businessservicesuk,

Talking disrespectfully to your opponents and calling them liars does not add you a value as well as does not make you right.
If you want to success learn to hear what other people say, not what you want to hear.

It's a pity that you haven't read the bottom line of what I said.
Please do not take it personally. I just want to help by giving away my knowledge and experience. I understand what you feel when a client rejects one mockup after another. However, as in any other problem's resolving here too, before blaming everybody, make sure there is nothing wrong about you. Maybe it's not that all clients in the world are insufferable, but yours. Maybe it's not that all web designers are bad, but those who you face. Maybe it's not that all web design industry has problems, but your business. I think you understand...

Don't be so dramatic. Break the big problem into a few of questions and deal with them separately. For example, you could have start a thread "How are people dealing with tough clients?" Or "why do you think a reviews' section has so many bad designs?"

I am sure that this would help better then unsubstantiated conclusions.


Have fun.

[businessservicesuk]

I understand what you feel when a client rejects one mockup after another. However, as in any other problem's resolving here too, before blaming everybody, make sure there is nothing wrong about you. Maybe it's not that all clients in the world are insufferable, but yours. Maybe it's not that all web designers are bad, but those who you face. Maybe it's not that all web design industry has problems, but your business. I think you understand

I don't do mock ups, I am not a designer

To be honest very little of your post makes sense to me, even after reading it 3 times. It appears you have joined the conversation half way through, if you go back to the begining you will realise the comments are general ones.

[D3n!ss3_gÜrL]

Nice articles bsu.

By the way, I have quoted your article and scorpion Agency's article in my blog page. But don't worry I've put the necessary links as anchor text. You already got an inbound link from me.

[businessservicesuk]

Thank You D3, I think there are some great posters in this place their views should be used more by bloggers. I agree Scorps makes some great posts.

[scorpionagency]

Originally Posted by businessservicesuk

Thank You D3, I think there are some great posters in this place their views should be used more by bloggers. I agree Scorps makes some great posts.

Who Me? Nah, I just give my point of view & roll with the punches.. Granted some times my posts turn into more of a Book ...

I'm no expert, just an opinionated hands on player in the global world of internet business's.

Thanks for the complement businessservicesuk.


and thanks for the Blog Add D3n!ss3_gÜrL.

[zealous.cre]

To everyone hello!

I'm new here and I just have to say this thread is amazing. The views and opinions are things which made me really sit back and analyze or just laugh.

Anyway just wanted to say that I'm a web designer not a webmaster - well maybe I'm trying to be, and I design, develop, and optimize sites for clients and these are 3 separate services in my eyes. I outline my services and ask the clients what they want. Most of the time it boils down to what they can afford. So designers aren't always to blame, sometimes the clients cant afford a web site with all the trimmings - so to speak.

Just my opinion.

[businessservicesuk]

zealous you raise a very relevant point.

Lets not under estimate web designers, generally their own sites are of good quality, in terms of design and SEO (should I say GCW)

I am sure the market saturation and clients affordability play a huge part in the amount of tosh that is knocked out.

This subject and others I am passionate about made me sit down and do some serious thinking. The result of this mind mapping exercise was, I have decided to implement something that will combat some of the problems we have recently been discussing.

It is a bold move on my part, so fingers crossed.

[scorpionagency]

Originally Posted by businessservicesuk

This subject and others I am passionate about made me sit down and do some serious thinking. The result of this mind mapping exercise was, I have decided to implement something that will combat some of the problems we have recently been discussing.

It is a bold move on my part, so fingers crossed.

One of the topics was Implementation of a Designers Link in the footer as a joint copyright due to the clients Lack of funds that was needed in order to secure a full copyright. (Already listed in Terms Of Service)

Is that one of the things you are combating? & if so, How do you propose to control a clients financial situation & inability to pay standard rates in order to avoid a joint copyright on the design?

[businessservicesuk]

No Scorps it has very little to do with the web design industry more client based.

The idea is totally unique but needs working on.

[businessservicesuk]

Bearing in mind our discussions on designers logo's I see the SEO world have taken this to the extreme

Liverpool Locksmiths

[scottdizzle]

Wow.. I'm afraid to even touch this thread.