Why you shouldn't hire a freelancer

[gregdavidson]

I have safely drawn the conclusion that about 80% of all freelance web designers are "garbage designers". I feel bad for freelance web designers who deliver quality work because those that can't are giving good freelancers a bad name. It's also making it harder for the good ones to find work because there are so many "garbage" ones offering outrageous deals that are tempting to people that like to save money. Some will even bid extremely high to make it seem like their work is better quality than what it is. I recall reading a feedback on GetAFreelancer.com from a guy who got ripped off for $2500! He said that he trusted them because of their feedback record. I looked over the freelancer's feedback and most of them were apparantely fakes.

[scorpionagency]

Originally Posted by gregdavidson

I have safely drawn the conclusion that about 80% of all freelance web designers are "garbage designers". I feel bad for freelance web designers who deliver quality work because those that can't are giving good freelancers a bad name. It's also making it harder for the good ones to find work because there are so many "garbage" ones offering outrageous deals that are tempting to people that like to save money. Some will even bid extremely high to make it seem like their work is better quality than what it is. I recall reading a feedback on GetAFreelancer.com from a guy who got ripped off for $2500! He said that he trusted them because of their feedback record. I looked over the freelancer's feedback and most of them were apparantely fakes.

I have to agree with you, I had a conversation a few months ago with an Indian gentleman that claimed getacoder & getafreelancer was the answer to his countries poverty rates.

After testing out both the freelance auction style sites I ended up contacting him again & asked how he got so much clientel (125+ feedback) in less than 2 months being a member.

He revealed his secret & exclaimed that it is good to sign up with several free accounts & hire himself for $1.00-$10.00 projects Via escrow in order to secure larger clients that base selection off feedback ratings.

In a way this made sense (Deceptively). but seeing that not all actually deliver the work & steal the money makes it Criminal. It would be nice if sites like that at least had an IP limitation rather than e-mail. This would provide at least some solution to the ones with 100's of accounts originating from the same IP.

Seems like the more we do to try & monitor for the bad guys, the more loopholes they find to get around it.

Sad!

(Note: For those of you Reading this thread, Please don't be a smuck & go do it yourself - this post was meant as an example of criminal type actions, not as positive education)

[scottdizzle]

Wow.. I knew the majority of the users had fishy looking feedback. I knew before I signed up I had no chance.. and the frustrating thing was that people that could barely speak English were getting higher paying jobs than I could even come close to getting.

Needless to say, I'll never be signing up for any of those sites. I knew something seemed fishy about them from the get-go. I just left before I wasted my time. Hopefully the sites will tighten up the security (with IP's as you suggested! definitely the best method) or their reputation will soon prove your point is true and they'll be out of commission. One way or another.. this freelance stuff is really getting ruined by the 'bad guys'.

[Costin Trifan]

@ scorpionagency:

It would be nice if sites like that at least had an IP limitation rather than e-mail. This would provide at least some solution to the ones with 100's of accounts originating from the same IP.

Monitoring the IP address it won't be any good, unless the freelancer is a stupid one...and I doubt that...

He can use this technique (of employing himself) very easily, because all he has to do is going to some internet cafee and do the job request from there because there will be different IP addresses...

[Dan Williamson]

Originally Posted by scottdizzle

Wow.. I knew the majority of the users had fishy looking feedback. I knew before I signed up I had no chance.. and the frustrating thing was that people that could barely speak English were getting higher paying jobs than I could even come close to getting.

Needless to say, I'll never be signing up for any of those sites. I knew something seemed fishy about them from the get-go. I just left before I wasted my time. Hopefully the sites will tighten up the security (with IP's as you suggested! definitely the best method) or their reputation will soon prove your point is true and they'll be out of commission. One way or another.. this freelance stuff is really getting ruined by the 'bad guys'.

It's nothing to do with the site. You get *******s that do this on everysite. I have seen it on eBay and hell they even sign up on stupid sites to try and make some quick money. You get these sort of people on every site so it's pointless to say that "I'm not signing up, there are idiots on this site."

You just need to learn how to tell the idiot from the good-guy. There are many freelancers out there who aren't great designers, but when you see amateur or semi-professional designers paying $100 for a quick template for a website I don't expect a beautifully crafted layout which has taken weeks of meticulous work. I expect it to be worked on, dedicated to and look how I specify, you look too much into having great work for not-great prices.

If it was a professional designer who's charging you $2,500 for some design work for your new professional company, then you can expect something which has been worked on to the fullest and greatest that the designer has to offer.

If you all wish to moan about freelancers being crap then you really need to keep looking and learn how to tell the crap from the good, or learn it yourself.

My apologies if this comes across harsh, I am attempting to get my point across.

[scorpionagency]

Originally Posted by Costin Trifan

@ scorpionagency:


Monitoring the IP address it won't be any good, unless the freelancer is a stupid one...and I doubt that...

He can use this technique (of employing himself) very easily, because all he has to do is going to some internet cafee and do the job request from there because there will be different IP addresses...

Actually even an internet cafe only uses 1 (ISP) Internet Service Provider.. While their multi-unit business runs off a Hub/Router (Like my 5 units here do) it is still possible to Block the main IP/ ISP root account.

If an internet cafe is found to be a source of this in a large scale, a warning should be issued to the cafe to take action by posting what will happen if it continues & the result would be the total loss of privilege to ANY customer from that cafe for Violating said warning & using the Cafe as a criminal medium.

It can be done.... It just depends on how secure a site owner truly wants to be.

[Skinny]

I'm a freelancer and pride myself in the quality, honesty, and communication I provide my customers.

I think this thread shows how the Internet can also be a great place to be scammed.

Frankly these scam designers give honest freelancers like myself a bad name.

Some tips I would advise:

1) Never pay anything up front - I don't take any money until the customer is 100% satisfied.

2) Ask for the portfolio (A web portfolio is better) . . .do check up on the site's the designer claims to have designed, view testemonials and connect with those people.

3) Make regular communication with the designer/coder. If they don't get back to you or don't communicate regularly back out.

Skinny

[digiweb]

50% of the world are "C" students. And some of them cheat to get that far.

[scottdizzle]

If you all wish to moan about freelancers being crap then you really need to keep looking and learn how to tell the crap from the good, or learn it yourself.

Please don't take offense to what I was saying. I was only agreeing with you and thinking out loud in response to what you had said. I'm not here to moan.. I mean I make all my sites myself, I don't really care what level any designer is at. Either someone is good or they aren't good.. but I'm not going to hire anyone to make my sites. If I can't make them, then I guess they don't get developed.

And yes you're right.. there are idiots all over the internet and they visit every page.. eBay too.. and I'm not a member there either. I really dislike eBay.

all he has to do is going to some internet cafee and do the job request from there because there will be different IP addresses...

If they are that pathetic that they need to hunt down new internet connections just to create more users and log in as all their alternate personalities all over the place.. then so be it.. I'd pride myself if I ran a website that I knew people wanted to use to make money so much that they'd drive all over town just to make more members. So, what you're saying is that it's better not even to try to add security measures so they don't need to drive all over town? Don't you think this might discourage some dishonest people once they realize the trouble it will take? I'd rather keep finding new ways to discourage idiots than say 'eh screw it, why bother?' What if PayPal and our on-line banks did that? Ah, forget new security tactics, our customers will be idiots either way!

[Dan Williamson]

Originally Posted by scottdizzle

Please don't take offense to what I was saying. I was only agreeing with you and thinking out loud in response to what you had said. I'm not here to moan.. I mean I make all my sites myself, I don't really care what level any designer is at. Either someone is good or they aren't good.. but I'm not going to hire anyone to make my sites. If I can't make them, then I guess they don't get developed.

And yes you're right.. there are idiots all over the internet and they visit every page.. eBay too.. and I'm not a member there either. I really dislike eBay.



If they are that pathetic that they need to hunt down new internet connections just to create more users and log in as all their alternate personalities all over the place.. then so be it.. I'd pride myself if I ran a website that I knew people wanted to use to make money so much that they'd drive all over town just to make more members. So, what you're saying is that it's better not even to try to add security measures so they don't need to drive all over town? Don't you think this might discourage some dishonest people once they realize the trouble it will take? I'd rather keep finding new ways to discourage idiots than say 'eh screw it, why bother?' What if PayPal and our on-line banks did that? Ah, forget new security tactics, our customers will be idiots either way!

I didn't take offense, just rather got annoying at pointing certain things out

To be honest to change your IP there are programs such as IP Platinum or whatever it's called which can do that for you, theres really no need to seek out internet cafe's, and you would be outstanded at how many people did indeed seek them out anyway.

[scorpionagency]

Good point Dan.... There are hundreds, if not thousands of individuals that currently use IP cloaks (Similar to URL Cloaks) in order to mask their identity.

It's just sad how some choose to use it. I suppose it's the same as a loaded gun really. It's the person holding it that makes the choice on whether to use it & How they Use it.

It would also be silly to think that the Internet could ever be policed in a way that eliminates all cyber crimes. Just won't happen. It is a nice thought sometimes though (A day dream).

[scottdizzle]

I guess it's all a game. The internet is wild.. and that's why people are attracted to it. I know there's IP cloaking programs.. I have 2 installed on my computer. I just can't think of a good reason to need to use them. I wish they were used for better things that cheating other people.. but as long as the internet is made up of humans we can expect no less than some of them to be insincere and crappy.

Sometimes it makes it kinda fun

[scorpionagency]

Well, the old saying goes - "You can't have good without Evil" - So i suppose the task at hand would be to try & find the one with the lesser evil.

[imaginemn]

There's a really simple solution here. We hire out when we are overwhelmed and things are sometimes good and other times bad.

What you can do when a freelancer sends you their portfolio, just call/email some of the clients on their portfolio and tell them you like their site and want to hire the company/freelancer they worked with, ask them if they would recommend them? Or you could simply ask, who did your website? After a few calls/emails, you'll get the answer you are looking for. Most importantly you'll know if they are lying or telling the truth.

For example, I got an email from a company from India today claiming they are the top company with over 150 clients, etc. My question is, if they are such a top company and on top of their game, why the spam?

Most of my clients are happy to refer me and those who aren't are most likely not showcased on our portfolio page. As a matter of fact, I don't even have a portfolio online at the moment!

[digiweb]

Originally Posted by imaginemn

What you can do when a freelancer sends you their portfolio, just call/email some of the clients on their portfolio and tell them you like their site and want to hire the company/freelancer they worked with, ask them if they would recommend them?

That's good, and brilliant, and simple. Lovely. You're so right.

[Dan Williamson]

Originally Posted by imaginemn

What you can do when a freelancer sends you their portfolio, just call/email some of the clients on their portfolio and tell them you like their site and want to hire the company/freelancer they worked with, ask them if they would recommend them? Or you could simply ask, who did your website? After a few calls/emails, you'll get the answer you are looking for. Most importantly you'll know if they are lying or telling the truth.

You talk sense.

[riven_kalki]

Sometimes I think people forget they are dealing with people. They want to hire a super human. Everyone is people no matter whether you hire one freelance designer or an entire firm full of designers.

You have a point there. The deal is that in reality there are terrible clients just as there are terrible freelancers. A client should know what he wants and should be able to tell that to his hired freelancer or design company.

Pardon me, but telling the designer very simple instructions is just all that- very simple instructions. This is a creative process and not a point A to B thing. Be as clear as you can in describing what you want.

With the way this thread is going, I see no other good light for a freelancer rather than a word of mouth referral.

What do you think?

[iamjames]

I have very good expereince with freelancers on Scriptlance and now i have got one programmer and designer so I dont have to go here and there