WebAtlas banned from Google - Page 6

John Scott · 01-03-2005, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

Trouble is many Directories now-a-days rely on high PR categories to convince Webmasters to part with their $. In other words, some directory Webmasters are the BIGGEST PR junkies.

I've never seen one. It would be a non-sensical sales tactic - all of the larger directories only have decent PR on their home pages. Actual category pages are usually less than PR6, and PR6 or below doesn't really make for a PR-based sales pitch.

Dave Hawley · 01-03-2005, 04:06 AM

If you don't believe some Directories rely on PR to make $$ you need a reality check I'm afraid.

gorillaboy · 01-03-2005, 07:52 AM

No PR...no BF. End of story!

88sahara · 01-03-2005, 08:47 AM

TY Gorilla! I just took a look back at a site and it has recieved 18 clicks, 10 unique since july from BF, while that is a bonus, not one of those visitors saw more than 3 pages on the site. I am fine with that b/c I didn't purchase a BF listing for the traffic and my submission is not in a very popular category, I purchased for the PR, and if it doesn't work out, as I hoped, I am fine with that.

Now if BF started trying to find distribution partners, THEN we'd be able to talk about BF being more than a way to boost PR.

Is DMOZ the only directory that does this? Wouldn't it be great if some of these upcoming directories, would find a way to work with other upcoming PPCS, shopping sites, meta searches and the like make an effort to turn themselves into more than just a way to get PR, as once the PR goes their value in many cases goes way down.

gorillaboy · 01-03-2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Is DMOZ the only directory that does this? Wouldn't it be great if some of these upcoming directories, would find a way to work with other upcoming PPCS, shopping sites, meta searches and the like make an effort to turn themselves into more than just a way to get PR, as once the PR goes their value in many cases goes way down.

Oh, I'm sure they all try!

John Scott · 01-03-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorillaboy

No PR...no BF. End of story!

I doubt it. SevenSeek got tons of submissions with PR0.

.........

Dave Hawley · 01-03-2005, 07:55 PM

John, wake up and smell the coffee. There is a correlation with PR and Webmasters paying to submit. Many Webmasters will pay to submit to a new directory as they percieve their category will obtain PR at a later stage. They do this in hope they will be the only one, or only one of a few, in the category.

If a paid directory loses all PR they will NOT be making $$ for very long off paid submissions.

Your own directory home page has a Toolbar PR of 8, you obviously paid/worked to get that for a reason. It cannot be for rankings as you have stated before Google rankings for your directory pages are not important.

This is one of the main reasons why DMOZ is spammed by so many. They believe it is a silver bullet for their Google ranking. This myth continues to perpetuate on forums. Not many submit to DMOZ for direct traffic as, even with its thousands of downstream users, the traffic is next to nothing.

gorillaboy · 01-03-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

I doubt it. SevenSeek got tons of submissions with PR0.

You're right, Google might be monitoring this thread.

DragonEye · 01-04-2005, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

John, wake up and smell the coffee. There is a correlation with PR and Webmasters paying to submit. Many Webmasters will pay to submit to a new directory as they percieve their category will obtain PR at a later stage. They do this in hope they will be the only one, or only one of a few, in the category.

If a paid directory loses all PR they will NOT be making $$ for very long off paid submissions.

Your own directory home page has a Toolbar PR of 8, you obviously paid/worked to get that for a reason. It cannot be for rankings as you have stated before Google rankings for your directory pages are not important.

This is one of the main reasons why DMOZ is spammed by so many. They believe it is a silver bullet for their Google ranking. This myth continues to perpetuate on forums. Not many submit to DMOZ for direct traffic as, even with its thousands of downstream users, the traffic is next to nothing.

::sighs:: YOU again... we got the message, okay?

Dave Hawley · 01-04-2005, 01:01 AM

Some might have, but there is still one that cannot see the forrest through the trees as is evident if you bother reading his posts.

BTW, it takes less energy to ignore posts than to post meaningless digs

1234pens · 01-04-2005, 01:33 AM

WebAtlas will have a very high PR on the next update

Runilo · 01-04-2005, 06:10 AM

Posted by John:

Quote:

I've never seen one. It would be a non-sensical sales tactic - all of the larger directories only have decent PR on their home pages. Actual category pages are usually less than PR6, and PR6 or below doesn't really make for a PR-based sales pitch.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, only to be a part of the discussion.
But I disagree on that one. I think it is a very good sales tactic. We all know that nobody goes to a directory to look for sites, they go to the search engines.

I'm listed in many directories, including bluefind, but I get no traffic from them, but it was still worth the money because of the increased PR, espesially bluefind where I'm listed on a PR 7 page. I inlist solely because of PR and link popularity, and I also believe that so does every webmaster who submits his site to a directory. Only for SEO purposes.

And why shouldn't google ban this?? I read your article http://www.v7n.com/pagerank-wins.php on whether or not PR is important when thinking about the SERPs, and the conclusion was yes. Then buying PR is clear manipulation of the SERPs.

I quote from the article "PageRank does matter. In fact, anchor text and inbound links is 95% of effective search engine optimization. Anyone who tells you otherwise does not practice real search engine optimization. "

I think the real question is: do people list in a directory in hopes of gaining traffic without even considering the effects on the search engines, or do they list because they know that "anchor text and inbound links is 95% of effective search engine optimization"?

I'm quite certain that the answer is the last option. At least for 99.9% of the listings.

Now people might say that we don't get anchor text in directories. But we do. Many of us have descriptive domain names, and the majority of directories let you list with anchor text, either for free or an extra cost.

The simple fact is, that the people who list their sites in directories, do it solely to increase PR and link popularity, which according to the article, and every SEO savvy persons knowledge, is a violation against Google policy.

Itâ€™s nothing more than common sense that the guys at Google will do something about it, if it violates their policy and therefore might lower the quality of the results.

We know that PR helps us in the SERPs, and we know that link popularity helps us in the SERPs
But the democracy of Google does not include us voting for ourselves. That is manipulation.

OK, the post became a bit long, but to summarize:
People list only because of the benefits they get in Google, and Google knows that.

Quote:

I doubt it. SevenSeek got tons of submissions with PR0.

We all knew it was gonna jump to PR 7 or 8

88sahara · 01-04-2005, 07:24 AM

I feel like O'Rielly in the no-spin zone...

The reason why SevenSeek got the submissions with PR0 is because of the track record of what had happened with BF. Same goes with UTN, it had a PR0 but people had confidence that Shaun knew what was up and could get a high ranking directory, and some of us want in early.

The goal should be ot make a quality directory that gets traffic on its own, work on the algos that power these directories so that they give great results, make the google anchor text boost a big plus, but make sure it isn't the only draw. That is if you want a long lasting directory, as it is enevitable that google will always be changing.

Dave Hawley · 01-04-2005, 08:54 PM

2 well thought out and common sense posts.

gorillaboy · 01-04-2005, 08:59 PM

Dave, your signature cracks me up!

"Kind Regards" <----- That's hilarious to me!

Dave Hawley · 01-04-2005, 09:11 PM

Why thank you gorillaboy. Yours is very apt also

shootert · 01-08-2005, 04:11 PM

Long time lurker and reader of these forums.

First, it is silly to deny that PR plays a huge role in the success of these directories. SevenSeek sold a lot of listings at PR0 because people knew they were buying a lot of high PR links. If these directories were really just "advertising", they'd buy ads on high traffic sites regardless of PR. They'd also do PPC.

Second, I certainly can understand the concern over directories. Links from these directories I'm certain are devalued. I also think the Internet.com network has been devalued of late as well. Look at sites like WeBuildPages.com that are no longer ranking for terms they had dominated for years. Google has stated they will devalue paid links and internet.com has been someone selling links for PR forever.

The problem people has is the concern over whether these directories will last. If a directory is spending $10,000/month, will they be spending that amount of money 2 years from now when directories are filled and the value isn't there? I'm sure some will, but I'm certain many won't. WebAtlas is disturbing because the links now have ZERO value. They collected money from people that in return got NOTHING.

Now I personally don't see what all the banter is about in these directories. Many of the e-commerce sites I run bring in 6 figures in sales a month. A $50 directory listing isn't exactly killing our budget. I've always felt that if you have a large budget, buy some of these directory links. If $50 advertising is a lot for your business, don't. But don't come around telling people that did buy listings that it is wrong. It is funny that those that spend their days bashing these listings are those that find a $50 link for their site a huge advertising cost.

My opinion on the current directories is this:

I feel they are doing good and bad things. UTN has a great setup and I love the individual page for each listing with the ability to link to internal pages with anchor text. I like the fact that BlueFind and SevenSeek actually spend money on advertising (which many directories can't say).

I'd like to see both directories be more careful on where sites are listed. I see all directories allowing sites to apply to higher PR categories that may not be exactly releavant. I'd also like to see a lot more free listings in the lower categories. Not saying that you give free listings away, but have editors constantly adding them.

The problems BlueFind has had in indexing is due to duplicate content. This would help that problem dramatically as well as increase traffic. I noticed a BlueFind category ranking really well the other day for a competitive term. The reason? It had a bunch of on-topic listings with solid descriptions.

Just my $

Dave Hawley · 01-08-2005, 06:21 PM

Good post shootert, you should post more

Quite honestly I cannot see that directories serve the average Joe anymore. Mainly due to SE's being so good at what they do now, compared to how they were. Checking my logs I see that DMOZ (and all its downstream users) send very little traffic indeed. The trend I see is directory traffic spiralling downward and SE traffic spiralling upwards and the gap is HUGE

There mere existence seems mainly/only to be to serve Webmasters and SEOs, which cannot be viewed favourably by the SEs?

shootert · 01-08-2005, 10:23 PM

Directories can be succesful with more content. Longer descriptions and more entries. Too many directories think the short term route and just try and nab as many $50 spots as they can. If they offered some recipricol links, added free listings, and maybe lowered the price to allow more entries, much would change. They'd rank better, get more SE traffic, and become more valuable.

ferret77 · 01-09-2005, 08:17 AM

Quote:

My Take on IHU

Those at IHU and in this thread are sad little people. They scream and whine about "ethics" - they cry like babies when someone beats them in the SERPS, which isnt hard as most of them couldnt SEO their way out of a paper bag.

They huddle together in that sad little outcast corner of the rejected, neglected and unloved social area of the web development world consoling eachother over their collective inadequacies and justifying their consitent failures with the moral chants of "cheater cheater cheater!".

They're spiteful, petty little misfits that the rest of the community at best ingore as insignificant.

This latest revelry in someone elses misfortune shows them for what they truly are. Vicious little misfits.

Thats is the funniest thing I heard in awhile