Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > Marketing Forums > Web Directory Issues

Web Directory Issues Issues pertaining to operating or dealing with online directories, or general info about DMOZ, Yahoo!, Google Directory, BOTW, Ezilon, etc.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #21  
Old 03-09-2017, 06:23 PM
vaguar vaguar is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 07-02-16
Posts: 1,022
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeair View Post
I can not understand why they are not selling the directory. It could be a lucrative sales price if someone wanted to continue the project and add there own touch to it.

I guess they don't see the directory as a money maker if it was put on the market.
Its new corporate masters fail to see value in it. In such mega deals, buying companies just take the parts they need of the bought company & discard the rest because

a) they think those parts fit better with their business
b) they think the remaining parts may even cause disharmony in their business operations
c) nobody at the new company wants to take responsibility for growing & nurturing them

Verizon probably thinks that DMOZ will always remain free (& hence not earn it any revenue) & the cost & effort of selling it will be far greater than the revenues of doing so (has to fetch at least a few million dollars for a suit to put in their time! Besides, companies usually appoint a consultant like KPMG or an investment banker to find a buyer & these guys charge through the roof!) So the easy way out is to shutter it.

Last edited by vaguar; 03-09-2017 at 06:34 PM.
 
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #22  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:23 PM
Snooks's Avatar
Snooks Snooks is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-06-10
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,125
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insignia SEO View Post
Great! I could never get a site listed and I tried for years. What's the point of a directory that you can't list on.
Well you should probably take the hint and build a decent website with unique content and something that is compelling for the "End User".

If you are building multiple sites, suggesting multiple sites and none are being accepted......then, my friend, your sites are simply not good enough or they do not comply to the suggestion guidelines in some way.

The DMOZ Editors are trying hard to continue the project, in exactly what format we do not know. Handling 5 million sites and a couple of million sites still in the unreviewed queues is not fun. The server resources are extensive and so many things become roadstops..... but we have some pretty resourceful, dedicated team members trying to keep the project alive. We have the support of a large group of Editors so who knows, the outcome is yet to be decided.

As yet AOL will not release the DMOZ name or Brand and they have stated it will not be sold at this stage.
 
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:33 PM
Insignia SEO Insignia SEO is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 03-09-17
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 26
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Snooks, perhaps you presume too much. Suggesting that our work isn't decent as a reason for nonacceptance disputes the 2nd part of your point. Which is valid.

The work was overwhelming for editors. Our sites where more than good enough. Please don't make me look through the "accepted" sites and show you up. =)

My friend, don't assume so much. If there is a system that is broken like DMOZ is, you get rid of it. We now have Google and other systems in place that can place relevance where relevance is due.
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:29 AM
Snooks's Avatar
Snooks Snooks is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-06-10
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,125
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
Snooks, perhaps you presume too much. Suggesting that our work isn't decent as a reason for nonacceptance disputes the 2nd part of your point. Which is valid.
I do not believe that i am presuming, i am expressing a fact gained from 12 years of editing and roughly 50k edits to the directory.

If you suggest MULTIPLE SITES, that is, if you suggest let's say 4-8 sites to the directory and not one gets listed, then you are either:

a. Suggesting a site that is not compliant with the guidelines and is unlistable
b. Suggesting a site that is not good enough. It is either spammy, it does not have unique content or it is wrong in some other aspect.

What other reason would there be? I concede waiting times can be very long, but eventually, one of those "multiple sites" would come to an editors notice and be seen, or be reviewed.......... if they were not listed after a number of years, then i stand by my first statement.

You need to face the fact that EVERY webmaster thinks that the site that he or she is suggesting is the best on Earth. Ive had people tell me how great there site is and then i have looked, it is nothing but spammy ads and only supported by duplicate content.

I have barely looked at a suggestion pool in the last 5 years. I prefer to cruise the net, see a good site and list that appropriately. When you are editing using the suggestion pools, some categories return as little as one listable site for every 20-30 suggestions.

A good example would be a travel category. Too many people suggested unlistable sites, which they could easily see by the guidelines, then because they waited 6-12 months they suggested them again......you have now doubled the Editors work and then after 3 years they suggested them again........ each time overwriting the Date Stamp and sending the suggested site to the bottom of the pool. THEN they complain about waiting......

I believe that i have earned the right to presume, my 50k edits gives me experience.
Unless you have been there and seen what I have seen, then you do not know any better and you are acting on hearsay and nothing else. You havent seen the spam suggestions, you havent seen a suggestion pool and you probably do not know the guidelines because you have almost certainly never read them.

Regards the work being overwhelming, i agree 100% that we could not keep up. We have millions of sites in suggestion pools....but many are suggested 3, 6 even 10 times. Many are unlistable to start with but were still suggested....... So yeh, we were under resourced and could not keep up but if webmasters had not of been so desperate for the "Magic Link", then multiple spam submissions would not have slowed us down so much. The hardest part is getting an honest and trustworthy new Editor.....they were few and far between.

Webmasters would not listen, but the link was simply a link, nothing magical and way over valued by SEO people chasing page rank. In the end the webmasters almost became the enemies of dmoz editors, and vice versa, because each has no respect for the other party. A sad but true result.

The other issue is that you have Meta Editors such as myself, that is senior, very experienced editors, that barely get a second to get the time to edit. I mean, bear in mind that it is a hobby, not a job and we do NOT guarantee a listing to anyone. I probably spent around 20 hours per week doing editing tasks, but only 2 hrs would be actually editing. The rest is spent teaching new editors, doing admin tasks and at least 12hrs is spent fighting abuse and hunting crooked editors that join to list only their sites, do many other types of illegal listings and yes...even try and sell some links. We spent so much time fighting abuse and i can tell you now that we did a bloody great job and we kept it to a mimimum...... there was very few Crooked editors in the directory because hour by hour, day by day we hunted them down.

But that took us away from reviewing the sites and then the circle was repeated....................

Last edited by Snooks; 03-10-2017 at 12:43 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:39 AM
sitetutor's Avatar
sitetutor sitetutor is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 12-30-03
Posts: 3,542
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeair View Post
The only reason my friends liked DMOZ is that they could brag there business was listed on there when they sold some of there business's.

I can not understand why they are not selling the directory. It could be a lucrative sales price if someone wanted to continue the project and add there own touch to it.

I guess they don't see the directory as a money maker if it was put on the market.
The only explanation I can come up with is legal issues, potential legal issues of fear of such.
 
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-10-2017, 06:52 PM
Birdie Birdie is online now
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-29-04
Posts: 1,801
iTrader: 0 / 0%
@Snooks - any updates on what editors are planning?
 
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-10-2017, 10:45 PM
Snooks's Avatar
Snooks Snooks is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-06-10
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,125
iTrader: 2 / 100%
The Editors are backing up the databases, taking copies of RDF and working on rebuilding a clone of DMOZ that would be operable when DMOZ is taken off air.

Most stuff that is critical is happening behind closed doors, betwee our Admins and AOL.

That is discussions and negotiations about brands, what can and cant be taken, left, used in a "new project" etc. There is so much to sort out you dont even realise until you start doing things Hosting, where? Cost? What resources? Legal aspects? This baby wont run on just a server and your standard sort of software.....

A lot is so unknown. All i can say is that there is a strong group of "base editors" that are doing everything possible to have "DMOZ" continue once it is officially turned off, although it's continuance is probably under a different name.

Thats all i know at this stage. There is a somewhat positive attitude by the Editors and a sad sort of air, that friendships are breaking up and things will quite possibly be changing forever
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-11-2017, 04:20 AM
sitetutor's Avatar
sitetutor sitetutor is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 12-30-03
Posts: 3,542
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooks View Post
This baby wont run on just a server and your standard sort of software.....
Not sure why. Any unique functionalities other directories do not have?
 
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-11-2017, 07:35 AM
Snooks's Avatar
Snooks Snooks is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-06-10
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,125
iTrader: 2 / 100%
There is a huge amount of customizations to the software but I canot discuss those here, mainly because i do not know even half of them.

Lets just say that over the years there has been features we need to help with editing sites, automated tools to assist with ease and speeding things up....... so many technical changes I could not even think of mentioning.

Even basic Editor Logs.

For transparceny reasons, every single edit is logged and can be seen by every editor. So a brand new editor can check everything that i have edited, even though I am a Meta. This is so that anything funny or untoward can be seen and believe me....any funny acts are noticed very easily. Being so transparent helps us fight abuse. Features like that record huge amounts of data and surely are not in most software programmes. Bear in mind that i know very little technical wise about technical things like databases and hosting.
 
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-11-2017, 03:00 PM
webgeek247's Avatar
webgeek247 webgeek247 is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-03-17
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 111
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Well, it would be helpful if the editors could have provided feedback as to why they were rejecting submissions. To the site owner, it isn't always that obvious what the problem is.

The sites I was submitting had Google Google page rank of 3-4 plus (at the time), nice Moz and Alexa rankings/traffic, easy to use with beautiful designs and with all the right unique content, yet none of them was ever accepted. I can only assume that there was a massive backlog or they just did not want to approve them, which could be for competitors reasons for all we know.

Yes, some basic sites that I submitted before 2009 were accepted fine. How strange is that?

So yes, some feedback as to why certain sites weren't being accepted would've been very helpful. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case which made the directory kind of blah.

I do appreciate that the editors volunteered their own time to make a good directory, but it just seems they didn't have the right resources to maintain it correctly which is a shame.

Now it appears all that hard work has been wasted if they're just going to shut it down.

I would have thought someone would have carried it on.
 
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-11-2017, 03:16 PM
Birdie Birdie is online now
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-29-04
Posts: 1,801
iTrader: 0 / 0%
How much are you paying DMOZ in expectation of the service that you are expecting them to provide you?
 
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-11-2017, 03:26 PM
webgeek247's Avatar
webgeek247 webgeek247 is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-03-17
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 111
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdie View Post
How much are you paying DMOZ in expectation of the service that you are expecting them to provide you?
I would've paid them if they let me! In fact, they should've gone that route, but offering paid listings isn't without its issues either, I know.
 
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-11-2017, 03:29 PM
Birdie Birdie is online now
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-29-04
Posts: 1,801
iTrader: 0 / 0%
My point is that that webmasters expected a link from them but are not paying DMOZ anything for it.
You were expecting feedback for being rejected, yet not paying for that expectation.
I would hate to think the arguments that would ensue of editors did provide feedback. Volunteers do not sign up for that.
 
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-11-2017, 05:12 PM
webgeek247's Avatar
webgeek247 webgeek247 is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-03-17
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 111
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdie View Post
My point is that that webmasters expected a link from them but are not paying DMOZ anything for it.
You were expecting feedback for being rejected, yet not paying for that expectation.
I would hate to think the arguments that would ensue of editors did provide feedback. Volunteers do not sign up for that.
I agree with what you say. Like I said, I would rather the directory charge at least something, and then editors could e.g., fix such and such dead links, correct spelling and grammar on such and such page, submit a unique description and here is an example you could use (one they would accept).
 
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-11-2017, 07:43 PM
Snooks's Avatar
Snooks Snooks is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-06-10
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,125
iTrader: 2 / 100%
At that stage, working as a paid directory would not work Like many other senior editors, i have 50k edits to my name, some have 300k UPWARDS, but in no way will i do the editing if someone is going to make money from it. I love volunteering because it was fun, it was my hobby. But im not an idiot....if you are making money for submissions then i want my share

The problem with talking to webmasters is very simple and i know, because i have been sucked in time and time and time again Im sort of being sucked in now RAFLMAO

You contact them for some reason and it becomes a debate. They want to debate the reason you will not include them and argue, or change the site to suit and the end result is you tie so much time up talking to the webmaster and you will never make him happy because you have made the decision, full stop. Once rejected a site is rarely ever changed to become compliant because you cannot build a site to suit DMOZ, you have to build a site to suit the end user or target audience.

But now.....well he gives your email to his friend or next time he wants something he emails you direct and hey prsto, now your email is contaminated and you have to change emails, notify friends and contacts and the issues just go on and on.

Quote:
The sites I was submitting had Google Google page rank of 3-4 plus (at the time), nice Moz and Alexa rankings/traffic, easy to use with beautiful designs and with all the right unique content, yet none of them was ever accepted. I can only assume that there was a massive backlog or they just did not want to approve them, which could be for competitors reasons for all we know.
We do not care at all about PR.

Why would we care about Alexa Ranking?

We dont even care if the site is beautiful or ugly........ it simply has to be unique. It has to have some contant that is unique to you, somthing helping the web server and it must be compliant with other guidelines. Links must work, it must be listed in the correct category and when you suggest it, do a decent title and description that is not keyword stuffed AND NOT HYPED. But no....evey Tom Dick & Harry would suggest

Tonys Fishing Tackle - Buy sinkers, hooks, reels, rods, lines, bait, sinkers tackle boxes and everyting else from the best tackle shop on earth, FRIGGING IDIOT!!!!

You dont see this is keyword stuffed? You dont see it is hyped? But some webmasters then shoot their mouth off and claim its a great site that we wont list and blah blah blah blah..... By the way, you sent it to the wrong category because you sent it to SHOPPING but you were too dam lazy to drill down to the sports subcat, So it sat there 2 years and then you know what??? It got moved to Sports subcat and will wait for probably 2 years again becaus YOU suggested to the wrong category. You were lazy and to top it off....editors look at that in the pool, looks to spammy and hard for me, ill do the nice simple one under yours and your listing just sinks lower and lower.

eg Tonys Tackle Shop - Offers a range of tackle to suit both salt and fresh water fishing. Official Shimano Dealer located in Sydney Australia.

I would agree there was probably a massive backlog, that is dependent upon what category or niche was it in.


Now they start "guessing" that their competitor is keeping them out and will not review the site. The cold fact is there are HUNDREDS of editors going through, over and around the category at random times, if and when they choose to edit, or update or do something there. So are these HUNDREDS of editors all your competitors? HUNDREDS of corrupt editors? Nope....more than likely just a huge suggestion pool and no editors happy to volunteer their time editing there. It may be just a ****ty, boring cat to edit !

But most webmasters just jump to the conclusion their opponent is keeping them out and know matter how much we try and explain, we just get shouted at, we get abused, we get insulted and told that we are lazy and corrupt. We are human....we fight back, we say stick it up your **** and we cease communicating........now we have peace So the outcome is the same, the site isnt listed but now we are not being abused or insulted because we dont talk. After 3 months editing i learnt fast that this is the best way to edit

Last edited by Snooks; 03-11-2017 at 07:59 PM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-12-2017, 03:15 AM
webgeek247's Avatar
webgeek247 webgeek247 is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-03-17
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 111
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thanks for the information @snooks

Well, I'd just put mine down to just simply not being accepted due to a massive backlog. Nearly 4 million sites listed in the directory. Says it all.

I don't dispute that being an editor isn't easy as you've just explained. Just a shame they're closing it down. It seems like all those edits were for nothing.

I'd like them to turn it into a paid directory, and while I know Google don't like paid links, it's different, because the directory could accept payment for sites to be listed in the directory, but DMOZ editors could say we can't accept the information a site owner submitted, but we can accept such and such title/description (something that meets DMOZ/Google guidelines) and hey presto.

DMOZ could also send a newsletter to site owners to help site owners make better websites and get listed in Google (basic sitemap tips, etc) and to better meet Google guidleness, help increase their traffic, etc.

There are loads of ways to turn DMOZ into a business site and do something completely different with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooks View Post
Why would we care about Alexa Ranking?
I thought traffic matters. So you would accept new site that has no traffic as long as it has unique content

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooks View Post

We dont even care if the site is beautiful or ugly........ it simply has to be unique. It has to have some contant that is unique to you, somthing helping the web server and it must be compliant with other guidelines. Links must work, it must be listed in the correct category and when you suggest it, do a decent title and description that is not keyword stuffed AND NOT HYPED. But no....evey Tom Dick & Harry would sugges
The trouble with this is everyone has different opinions and so what one editor might not think has unique content or meets guidlines another editor might do. So the only way to really know if a site should or shouldn't be accepted would be by all editors upvoting/downvoting if they think the site should be excpted or not. If the vote is above 51% then the link gets accepted. Keep that in mind when setting up the new one.

Those types of reasons are probably why the new owner doesn't want to continue with it. They probably think Google does a far better job at displaying sites correctly in SERPs and it's automated.

Sorry, just got me thinking about it more. I like the idea of what I said about creating a new directory based on a upvoting/downvoting system. Get above 51% and your site is displayed in the directory! I want 51% equity for the idea!
 
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-12-2017, 07:40 AM
snakeair snakeair is offline
Super Moderator - Rest in Peace 2018
 
Join Date: 12-31-07
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 54,771
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Snooks, wish you visit here more often then just for dmoz questions. We miss you in the directory section proving quality advice. On behalf of the moderating team here, thank you for taking the time in this sticky thread to address anything that you have information on.
 
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-12-2017, 12:57 PM
Snooks's Avatar
Snooks Snooks is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 03-06-10
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,125
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Thank you for vour very kind comments snakeair
 
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-12-2017, 01:32 PM
webgeek247's Avatar
webgeek247 webgeek247 is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-03-17
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 111
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I echo what snakeair said.

Keep us updated!

Cheers.
 
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-15-2017, 12:40 AM
vaguar vaguar is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 07-02-16
Posts: 1,022
iTrader: 0 / 0%
It's 15th of March, the site is still up, the suggest a site links are still accessible. Shut down called off?
 
Reply With Quote
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > Marketing Forums > Web Directory Issues

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Congress closes early due to weather ScriptMan Controversial Social Issues 2 03-07-2013 02:30 AM
PayPal Closes Money Market Fund vectro Online Payment Processing 0 06-29-2011 01:21 PM
RIP Typewriters: Last Manufacturer Closes Its Doors snakeair Tech Talk 10 04-30-2011 01:14 PM
How to pop up a message box and redirect when someone closes a window? virtualmisc Web Design Lobby 1 10-15-2009 02:52 AM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:32 PM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2018 VIX-WomensForum LLC