Experiment Concluded - Pay Directories Win

[rankland]

When you becme a paid site, you must pay for your link, because of popularity on the board , trust, and advertising.

Its kind of a growing process to reach the top, being free and submitting to free sites is ok if you dont have alot of money, and your trying to build foundation for a futuristic paid situation.

If your going to build a successful internet business you have no choice, but to pay for links, and advertising.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Cornbread

Sure, but if you say that the fee structure "sucks" would you make that site one of your top 5 recommended sites?

Over a ten year period you pay ten times as much. But Jeff promotes 20 times as much as most pay directories, so it works for me.

[LennyP]

The point with Aviva is that overall it is a very strong directory. They do most everything right, the fact that John dissagrees with one part of it does not mean he can not recommend it.

[rankland]

Jeff pays alot to give alot, and hes probably trying to get back what hes giving. Johns right he puts a great deal of positive promotion on the board to give back to the submitters.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Cornbread

Sure, but if you say that the fee structure "sucks" would you make that site one of your top 5 recommended sites?

Actually I deal with a few companies that I feel charge excessive fees, but I wouldn't even think of not doing buiness with them. Their services are well above average.

[kiviniar]

We have seen result where our link jumped from the 4 page in google to the first page with about 350-400 submissions (all free ones) with the keyword in the anchor text

[Cornbread]

Originally Posted by Cricket

Actually I deal with a few companies that I feel charge excessive fees, but I wouldn't even think of not doing buiness with them. Their services are well above average.

Then you probably wouldn't start a post saying they suck and were greedy then would you? It's just unethical to stomp up and down and call someone greedy and then five minutes later recommending them as one of the 5 best services. I think this is just Johns way of apologizing to Aviva after they got so upset when he said they sucked and were greedy. I think he was right the first time, they suck and are greedy and a little spammy to boot. Just because a directory self promotes itself doesn't make them good. The quality of the sites in the directory are what really count and Aviva is just average.

[John Scott]

I think this is just Johns way of apologizing to Aviva after they got so upset when he said they sucked and were greedy.

Jeff is a good friend, and he's also a business partner. He owns a 50% share in the Contextual Links service.

I respect his skills at promoting, and we've talked about the annual vs one-time fee thing before I posted that. When I posted that I did not mean to refer to Aviva. I posted that after I got notice from PayPal that a subscription payment had gone through to another directory for $49.95. I checked my stats for that site and saw that most months, not a single referral had been sent. But they keep taking money nonetheless. I was pissed. It wasn't Aviva.

[Cornbread]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Jeff is a good friend, and he's also a business partner. He owns a 50% share in the Contextual Links service.

I respect his skills at promoting, and we've talked about the annual vs one-time fee thing before I posted that. When I posted that I did not mean to refer to Aviva. I posted that after I got notice from PayPal that a subscription payment had gone through to another directory for $49.95. I checked my stats for that site and saw that most months, not a single referral had been sent. But they keep taking money nonetheless. I was pissed. It wasn't Aviva.

Yea but you threw a shotgun blasts at all annual charging directories which Aviva is one of. So you are saying, directories that charge only an annual fee suck and are greedy...uh...except Aviva because the owner is my friend and owns 50% of V7n. I am really not picking on Aviva, they are OK, I just think it's ironicly hilarious.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Cornbread

Yea but you threw a shotgun blasts at all annual charging directories which Aviva is one of. So you are saying, directories that charge only an annual fee suck and are greedy...uh...except Aviva because the owner is my friend and owns 50% of V7n. I am really not picking on Aviva, they are OK, I just think it's ironicly hilarious.

You were right up until the "friend" thing. Try this :

Directories that charge only an annual fee suck and are greedy...uh...except Aviva because the owner promotes the hell out of it with the income from annual listings.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by John Scott

So we submitted HealthSite "A" to five pay directories.

We submitted HealthSite "B" to 700 free directories.

HealthSite "A" ended up with PR4 and 100+ SE referrals daily.

HealthSite "B" ended up with PR1 and no SE referrals. Seems to be penalized.

hmm very good was the links sponsored? and was they new free directories if you don't mind answering?

[waffles]

Originally Posted by Cricket

Actually I deal with a few companies that I feel charge excessive fees, but I wouldn't even think of not doing buiness with them. Their services are well above average.

If their service is well above average, and you're paying to do business with them, doesn't that make the fees not excessive? I don't see how it could be excessive if you feel it is worth paying for.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by John Scott

You were right up until the "friend" thing. Try this :

Directories that charge only an annual fee suck and are greedy...uh...except Aviva because the owner promotes the hell out of it with the income from annual listings.

its all about branding (aviva)

[tdd1984]

I have seen a lot of confusion about the web directories and thinking aviva is not a good directory, or saying there directories that are better. Aviva directory is a very good directory and the owner of it plans on promoting it more from what I was told, and all the categories carry a good trust / page rank which granted page rank is not everything, but on scale aviva is up there. (its a well taken care of directory).

When john states that pay directories out did the free directories alls hes trying to state is that paid sponsored links are better for several reasons, and I don't think hes necessarily saying free directories are bad, but what he is suggesting is to just not submit your website to nothing but free directories get some authority links before you get a bunch of lower quality links which granted links are links and they all help so free directories are good too, and when I say links are links don't go getting porn links .

Get quality links, and yes free directories help a lot .

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Jeff is a good friend, and he's also a business partner. He owns a 50% share in the Contextual Links service.

I respect his skills at promoting, and we've talked about the annual vs one-time fee thing before I posted that. When I posted that I did not mean to refer to Aviva. I posted that after I got notice from PayPal that a subscription payment had gone through to another directory for $49.95. I checked my stats for that site and saw that most months, not a single referral had been sent. But they keep taking money nonetheless. I was pissed. It wasn't Aviva.

LOL john don't worry about it I understand what your trying to state / suggest.

[factoring]

Lets put this in different terminology since people can't understand anyones point of view here.

Lets say you could pay a one time fee of $500 to live in a 600 square foot decent condo. (This is the lifetime link directories)

or

You could pay $500 per year and live in a luxurious mansion.
(a little exaggerated, but this is Aviva)

When John made the statement about paid directories he was making a business point. Why pay 10 times as much over a 10 year period for something you only have to pay once somewhere else. Which I agree due to ROI (return on investment) but, if a service like Aviva is worth paying 10 times as much over a ten year period then it is worth it. Aviva is like the mansion in that it is advertised everywhere. (I don't mean to act like I know exactly what John is thinking but that is my take on his post about paid directories.)

A company like BOTW which I just submitted to, may not be worth $70 per year depending on what you are looking for. I payed for the lifetime link $200. I believe that is worth it.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by factoring

Lets put this in different terminology since people can't understand anyones point of view here.

Lets say you could pay a one time fee of $500 to live in a 600 square foot decent condo. (This is the lifetime link directories)

or

You could pay $500 per year and live in a luxurious mansion.
(a little exaggerated, but this is Aviva)

When John made the statement about paid directories he was making a business point. Why pay 10 times as much over a 10 year period for something you only have to pay once somewhere else. Which I agree due to ROI (return on investment) but, if a service like Aviva is worth paying 10 times as much over a ten year period then it is worth it. Aviva is like the mansion in that it is advertised everywhere. (I don't mean to act like I know exactly what John is thinking but that is my take on his post about paid directories.)

A company like BOTW which I just submitted to, may not be worth $70 per year depending on what you are looking for. I payed for the lifetime link $200. I believe that is worth it.

Yes to a point, now factoring remember when someone is charging yearly for something is actually sometimes better reason being is because the link profile stays down, not so many outbound links.

Okay what does the person think when they come to the directory there like I'm not going to pay a yearly fee, but then again if someone is willing to pay a yearly fee there link will be listed, and there will be a lot of links that are not in there, so less outbounds = more value to you.

Another reason Aviva is charging like this is because its more profit by every means, give them more marketing money. With more marketing money it builds a better directory, and more credit to the website with then that directory.

Now botw.org is a very good directory, but the bad thing about there directory is that its flooded with links there is a lot of things to look for when submitting to a directory.

[rankland]

This subject is crazy .... he said ... she said.....it says..... it really doesn't matter unless google says, and since none of us know what that is .....

Than what does it matter what any of us say about how to charge and how not too.

Being a great directory is being able to help site through links, traffic, pr , and so on.

A great directory doesn't need to be bragged about by other directories to get noticed its automatic.

[factoring]

Originally Posted by tdd1984

Yes to a point, now factoring remember when someone is charging yearly for something is actually sometimes better reason being is because the link profile stays down, not so many outbound links.

Okay what does the person think when they come to the directory there like I'm not going to pay a yearly fee, but then again if someone is willing to pay a yearly fee there link will be listed, and there will be a lot of links that are not in there, so less outbounds = more value to you.

Another reason Aviva is charging like this is because its more profit by every means, give them more marketing money. With more marketing money it builds a better directory, and more credit to the website with then that directory.

Now botw.org is a very good directory, but the bad thing about there directory is that its flooded with links there is a lot of things to look for when submitting to a directory.

I agree with you but I believe you are forgetting an important factor, which is authority. I believe Botw is like yahoo directory. Both directories are flooded with links, but Google looks at both of these as authority directories. This is just my opinion after researching the last few months.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by factoring

I agree with you but I believe you are forgetting an important factor, which is authority. I believe Botw is like yahoo directory. Both directories are flooded with links, but Google looks at both of these as authority directories. This is just my opinion after researching the last few months.

yes you are right, but the more links the less trust rank it will pass out. Typically older domains always rank high I have a client that is the largest reseller for hallmark ornaments, and he has hardly any back links, but generates high rankings for very competitive keywords.

Actually I'm getting ready to write a post on my blog and do a video interview on this on a white board to show exactly whats going on. Authority sites are good but the more links the less outbound power.