Rand Fishkin vs Aviva

[bobmutch]

>>>Bob, those comments were in response to another poster.

Sorry I didn't notice there was any one else here : )

[Bernard]

Originally Posted by bobmutch

I think the test works better when you are testing with a keyword that your site doesn't have topical authority for.

That makes no sense at all to me. I want my site to be listed on pages that have topical authority for my subject/niche.

If a directory category page actually ranked for keyphrases related to the subject (as many one page niche "directories" do), I think it's a clear sign that the page is viewed favorably by the search engines. I'm pretty sure this is the point Rand was trying to make even though he picked a poor manner to express the point IMO.

DMOZ used to rank very well for keyphrases in my niche. Now, not so much. I don't think it's authority or usefulness to Google has diminished though. I think the ranking algos are now favoring pages that have IBLs from other sites in the subject/niche and more folks aren't linking to the DMOZ category pages as much these days as they are to the niche page directories that I see.

The conclusion I reach is that PR is not near as important as IBLs from topical authorities or topically related pages.

General directories are going to lose this battle (versus niche sites) every time IMO. That doesn't mean that general directories are worthless, however. Just that the measure of quality isn't going to be found in a Google SERP IMO. You have to look at the category pages of the general directories and see how focused they are on topic, quality and completeness. The directories with better categorization are going to be more useful for the search engines to use as a base for topical relevance.

The conundrum for paid, general directories is that they want webmasters to pay for listings, so they generally don't have enough listings to really be a good reference on most subjects.

The conundrum for free, general directories is that they just don't scale well with the growth of the internet.

[maldives]

Originally Posted by John Scott

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ap&btnG=Search

Not surprised John!

According to Alexa, traffic rank for avivadirectory.com: 8,916 It is not an easy to rank for a webdirectory without SERPs.

[bobmutch]

Bernard:
<<<I think the test works better when you are testing with a keyword that your site doesn't have topical authority for.

>>>That makes no sense at all to me.

That is the best way to find out a sites authority.

The reason I say pick a key phrase that doesn't have topic authority is so you are not getting your rankings from off-page SEO.

[Bernard]

Originally Posted by bobmutch

The reason I say pick a key phrase that doesn't have topic authority is so you are not getting your rankings from off-page SEO.

I fail to see how that is a useful measure of a page's relevance (or desirability for a backlink) for the topic at hand.

[randfish]

Bob - although I can see that you're struggling to convince other here, I'm with you on all counts. It's a very, very difficult sort of test or subject to explain, and really requires almost a sixth sense about "this SHOULD be ranking here" and then trying to determine whether it does or not. Maybe it's another good subject for the blog in the near future

[jhnrang]

Originally Posted by bobmutch

>>>
>>>Really? Look at who is ranking. Not a whole lot of weight there. Some sites with very poor link profiles, and shit for on-page SEO.

http://www.seocompany.ca/tool/top-ke...=roll+your+own

You may want to take another look there John.

9 of the sites are 1999 or older.
10 sites are in dmoz and 4 have over 40 dmoz entries.

In the top ten there is www.wired.com and www.oreillynet.com

Now you got me thinking you are not only bias but blind as a bat : )

Anyway we are going more in circles now so I will take a break and see if there is any thing post of substance tomorrow. We can only beat this subject so long.

Bob - are you sure your tool is reliable?
I certainly found some discrepencies --
While my sites are ranking, they are totally PR less because they are new. ( PR has not yet updated this time round, backlinks got updated on one DC though). You tool shows it PR2
I have bought few .edu links too- but your tool suggest I have none. Ofcourse your IQL tool shows them.

So -- I can accept your SERPs tool --I have serious doubt about those two options on it.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by jhnrang

Bob - are you sure your tool is reliable?
I certainly found some discrepencies --
While my sites are ranking, they are totally PR less because they are new. ( PR has not yet updated this time round, backlinks got updated on one DC though). You tool shows it PR2
I have bought few .edu links too- but your tool suggest I have none. Ofcourse your IQL tool shows them.

So -- I can accept your SERPs tool --I have serious doubt about those two options on it.

No tools are completely accurate they just give you an "idea" of certain things specially keyword tools, thats why the other day I recommended someone to use AdWords for keyword analyzation.

Once you get more famaliar with seo you'll start to understand certain concepts better.

[jhnrang]

Originally Posted by tdd1984

No tools are completely accurate they just give you an "idea" of certain things specially keyword tools, thats why the other day I recommended someone to use AdWords for keyword analyzation.

Once you get more famaliar with seo you'll start to understand certain concepts better.

The other day --you were talking to me too. I don't know or understand SEO. But I can Certainly rank for the terms I want.

Presently I am trying to rank within top 25-50 for the term SEOMOZ-- will let ya know after 7-15 days.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by jhnrang

The other day --you were talking to me too. I don't know or understand SEO. But I can Certainly rank for the terms I want.

Presently I am trying to rank with top 25-50 for the term SEOMOZ-- will let ya know after 7-15 days.

top 25-50? why not number 1? and seomoz would be a easier one to get, go for keywords like seo, and website design, web design then get back with me

[jhnrang]

Originally Posted by tdd1984

top 25-50? why not number 1? and seomoz would be a easier one to get, go for keywords like seo, and website design, web design then get back with me

Gimme $20K-- it will take 2 months.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by jhnrang

Gimme $20K-- it will take 2 months.

20k , I'm in the top 5 for website design, and web design is coming up, but guess how I did that . Its a trade, and experience.

[jhnrang]

Originally Posted by tdd1984

20k , I'm in the top 5 for website design, and web design is coming up, but guess how I did that . Its a trade, and experience.

Good for ya. Have not even checked the competitive ness of those words.

Mow talking about competitive ness --mere numbers like Results 1 - 10 of about 688,000,000 for website design. matter little. What matters most is how strong your competitors are!
If a search term has 2 million results --but it has 10+ authority sites ( G's algo is putting great weight on domain age + Authority these days) --in the top 20-- preety hard to rank with your technique.

Now try ranking in the top 25 for the keyword Web Directory -with your technique. Just check the backlinks of all those directories ranking on top.(hint)

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by jhnrang

Good for ya. Have not even checked the competitive ness of those words.

Mow talking about competitive ness --mere numbers like Results 1 - 10 of about 688,000,000 for website design. matter little. What matters most is how strong your competitors are!
If a search term has 2 million results --but it has 10+ authority sites ( G's algo is putting great weight on domain age + Authority these days) --in the top 20-- preety hard to rank with your technique.

Now try ranking in the top 25 for the keyword Web Directory -with your technique. Just check the backlinks of all those directories ranking on top.(hint)

Ranking for keywords like Web directory are quite simple, I got my keywords up in 5 1/2 months, tell me how many seos you know that can do that? Some of the best seos out there are asking me how did it, well known people.

If someone thinks they can rank for keyterms like web directory or similar its because they don't envision it, or they can believe in there self, if you don't believe in you self then who will?

Search engines are simple, links are simple, viral marketing is simple. It might seem hard at first, and if it still seems difficult then the seo is still in there amateur stages, some learn quicker then others.

[jhnrang]

Originally Posted by tdd1984

Ranking for keywords like Web directory are quite simple, I got my keywords up in 5 1/2 months, tell me how many seos you know that can do that? Some of the best seos out there are asking me how did it, well known people.

If someone thinks they can rank for keyterms like web directory or similar its because they don't envision it, or they can believe in there self, if you don't believe in you self then who will?

Search engines are simple, links are simple, viral marketing is simple. It might seem hard at first, and if it still seems difficult then the seo is still in there amateur stages, some learn quicker then others.

Best of luck for you being the greatest SEO --so much so that other SEO experts are asking you tips.
Lemme offer you a suggestion--

Why don't you write a Book -- Self SEO-Learn How To Rank on First Page in 5 1/2 Months.

[tdd1984]

Originally Posted by jhnrang

Best of luck for you being the greatest SEO --so much so that other SEO experts are asking you tips.
Lemme offer you a suggestion--

Why don't you write a Book -- Self SEO-Learn How To Rank on First Page in 5 1/2 Months.

Sounds like a good idea, but I do have some future plans were getting ready to build up a forum, we already have over 1000 users going to sign up, and these will be active user, plus I will be there answering questions, and basically free consulting as the forum builds.

It will be the best forum out, trust me on that one.