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Old 07-26-2007, 01:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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SEOMOZ/Rand Fishkin vs Web directories and My answer to them!

Most directory owners know how illogical and irresponsible tirade ( or should I call personal vendetta) Rand Fishkin and SEOMOZ is having against web directories. His posts and methodology defies all sense and logic of SE (not SEO) community.

I have written up a post rebuffing his logics by collecting information from true/authority sources .

Please spread around the web -- post on forums that you know of /digg it 9 I am sorry for the missed button --but the digg link is on top) -- stumbling on stumble Upon --so that the web community know how SEOMOZ sucks because it is owned by such an irresponsible person who give personal vendetta preference over professional wisdom.

My Answer - SEOMOZ vs. Web Directories. ( Sorry John for using the anchor -but I have to rank well for the word as I want people to know the true SEOMOZ).
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Last edited by chicgeek : 07-26-2007 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It won't be too late before Bob and defense team arrives here.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldives View Post
It won't be too late before Bob and defense team arrives here.
Haha --whatever logic they put --webmasters are oblized by Google's rules --not imaginary theories by some self-procalined SEO experts. ( does recognized/authentic institues have SEO courses) -- I'll have to learn SEO too.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chicgeek View Post
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Thanks for the notification --didn't know that. Here is the post URL with the link-
bestinternetresource.info/birblog/2007/07/25/seomoz-rand-fishkin-tries-to-take-revenge-against-paid-directories-%e2%80%93-seo-showdown/#comments


Thanks again.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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>>>It won't be too late before Bob and defense team arrives here.

Defense team. I am just posted what most unbias SEO experts already know. I am not the one doing the defending that's Johnny : )

Why not just post the article here and we can have around of run around the bush.

And cut the link in two will you. You are making the screen as wide as your link.

Last edited by bobmutch : 07-26-2007 at 09:45 PM. Reason: cus
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Defense team. I am just posted what most unbias SEO experts already know. I am not the one doing the defending that's Johnny : )
You posted nothing of the sort. You didn't post a clear, consistent statement.

You said that domains with authority should rank for keywords in their titles.

When I showed you that DMOZ doesn't rank for keywords in its page titles, you said that those keywords were "competitive", even though the some of the 500+ pages that outrank DMOZ have PR0 and very little in the way of linkage.

In other words, your criteria is entirely useless at this point.

Either it gets applied and works, or it gets applied and doesn't work.

Quote:
most unbias SEO experts
You insult the intelligence of SEO experts when you suggest that they do not have the math skills to figure out that only so many web pages can rank in the top X number of pages for a search term, and there is no limit to the number of pages that can have authority. So in that argument alone, your theory falls.
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmutch View Post
>>>It won't be too late before Bob and defense team arrives here.

Defense team. I am just posted what most unbias SEO experts already know. I am not the one doing the defending that's Johnny : )

Why not just post the article here and we can have around of run around the bush.

And cut the link in two will you. You are making the screen as wide as your link.
I've already quoted you here ... http://www.v7n.com/forums/658806-post131.html
and
http://www.v7n.com/forums/658878-post134.html

Quote:
John: You insult the intelligence of SEO experts when you suggest that they do not have the math skills to figure out that only so many web pages can rank in the top X number of pages for a search term, and there is no limit to the number of pages that can have authority. So in that argument alone, your theory falls.
Spot on!
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Old 07-26-2007, 11:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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SEOmoz 's tool is useless

as it relies on data which is not accurate

a)Alexa
b).gov and .edu links
etc.,

Alexa can be easily inflated by any body and .gov and .edu links do n't judge a quality of a site

His real aim is to discourage the people from buying links on quality directories!
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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John:
>>>You didn't post a clear, consistent statement.

I posted many clear and consistent statements in my opinion.

Here is one.

<<<...in general the level of competitive keywords you can rank on the first page of the SERP, with out getting inbound links to that page shows the level of authority your site has.

>>>You said that domains with authority should rank for keywords in their titles.

I didn't say that. You may want to cut and paste what I say in quote form. Numerous times now you have posted statements that I have said so and so. Really what you are doing it posting what you think I have said. I suggest you use quotes that way you won't be misquoting me.

>>>When I showed you that DMOZ doesn't rank for keywords in its page titles, you said that those keywords were "competitive", even though the some of the 500+ pages that outrank DMOZ have PR0 and very little in the way of linkage.

No, what I did was show you a number of titles that were completive that DMOZ ranked very well for.

You did how ever show me a key phrase that was in a DMOZ title that was highly competitive that DMOZ didn't rank well for.

>>>In other words, your criteria is entirely useless at this point.

I think if you go looking for examples that don't line up with what I am saying you will be able to find them. But I would suggest that you count the ones that do as you are searching for the ones that done. I check 5 titles on DMOZ and came up with 3 that DMOZ ranked well for.

>>>Either it gets applied and works, or it gets applied and doesn't work.

I disagree. Finding one or even 100 examples that don't seem to match with what you say I am saying doesn't prove anything other than there are examples that don't match what you think I am saying.

>>>You insult the intelligence of SEO experts when you suggest that they do not have the math skills to figure out that only so many web pages can rank in the top X number of pages for a search term, and there is no limit to the number of pages that can have authority.

I didn't suggest that, that is your straw horse suggestion not mine. Try finding a quote where I suggested that and posting it for us.

From the above you appear to be deducting that my position would mean that as only X websites can rank for one term in the top X positions and there for there can only be X sites that have site authority.

Is that correct? State your object a bit clearer for me and I will be happy to address it.

If in fact that is what you are trying to say that is very simple to answer.

A sites authority adds to the ability of a site to rank a page that has been on-page optimized. The site authority is not the main component that ranks the page. The on-page optimization is if off-page SEO is not involved. With out the proper on-page optimization the page will not rank no matter how much site authority you have.

While CNN.com has huge site authority it doesn't rank any where for "blog titles" as it doesn't have a page that is optimized well enough to rank for that phrase.
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:cnn.com+blog+titles

This is why 37 SEO experts in Rands survey rated the title tag 4.9 out of 5.0 when it comes to ranking weight that search engines give in components. On-page optimization especially where coupled with high site authority is very strong.

The fact that only 100 site (let your X equal 100 for example) can rank in the top 100 for a keyword doesn't mean that only those 100 sites have authority as on-page optimization is the primary component that gives ranking when no off-page SEO is used.

Even if we produced 10,000 pages optimized for one phrase with equal on-page optimization and with out duplicate content, the fact that not all sites are in the top 100 doesn't mean that they don't have high authority.

Back to my position least we miss the forest because of all the trees.

I hold that how well you can rank for a competitive term with out off-page SEO is a clear reflection of your site authority.

I then go a step further and say by putting up a page that is fully on-page optimized for a competitive term and uses no off-page optimization, that by how well it ranks you can determine to some degree your site authority.

So far John your objects have been for the most part pulling down straw men misquotes. I would suggest that you take a quote of my position, post it and then logically show me your objection to it. I will do my best to answer the objects.

But really with all due respect we are dealing with a elementary SEO principle here. Perhaps there are others that could state the position better but this is a widely accepted position as far as I know and understand.

Last edited by bobmutch : 07-27-2007 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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John can you fix the long URL that is making the thread so wide please. It makes it hard to read and write.
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:10 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Manish Pandey:
>>>I've already quoted you here ... http://www.v7n.com/forums/658806-post131.html
and
http://www.v7n.com/forums/658878-post134.html

Ok you quoted me, and what is your point in stating that you quoted me?
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Remanean:
>>>SEOmoz 's tool is useless

You mean the Page Strength tool?

>>>His real aim is to discourage the people from buying links on quality directories!

The Page Strength tool rates quality directories high so I don't see you logic. Are you connected the "useless tool" with "aim is to discourage the people from buying links"?
http://www.avivadirectory.com/strongest-directories/
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmutch View Post
Remanean:
>>>SEOmoz 's tool is useless

You mean the Page Strength tool?

>>>His real aim is to discourage the people from buying links on quality directories!

The Page Strength tool rates quality directories high so I don't see you logic. Are you connected the "useless tool" with "aim is to discourage the people from buying links"?
http://www.avivadirectory.com/strongest-directories/
First of all let me tell you one thing

A directory's quality depends upon the quality of listings in it.

I am have a PR7 directory but with listing like www.html.org (A spam site)reduces the quality of a directory,I do not rate Aviva's list as strongest list of directories for these reasons:

a)It is sorted by Page strength
b)By means of Advertising it became a good list

Since Jeff the owner of Aviva is reputed person like John , the list become popular among others,The list is only sorted by PS which relies on these data

a)Alexa rank:

Best example is Alive and Aviva directory,Alive's rank is lower than Aviva's
Reason:Aviva directory has a thumbnail of Alexa Whereas Alive did n;t have any thing


b).edu and .gov links
Are you going to judge a quality of site by .edu and .gov backlinks


c)Yahoo backlinks

Yahoo backlinks is always unreliable as it indexes all the links unlike Google
It is very easy to get scores of backlinks within a month

d)Google's PR:
It is the only reliable data they have
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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LOL

hmm interesting

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Old 07-27-2007, 02:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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hmm

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LOL chikgeek i thought you was talking to me, I was thinking I didn't even do anything geesh

hey by the way chikgeek

<--------- Thats guy over there hes great
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Campaign has started and I am seeing a lot of negative reports against SEOMOZ and added one myself at my Dirsensei Blog. Though I am a noob, a directory owner of a no quality dir and a QBC hope this might help as my contribution.