Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > Web Development > Web Design Lobby > Web Usability

Web Usability Discuss and review websites for better usability.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #1  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:17 AM
Kalina's Avatar
Kalina Kalina is offline
aka Colleen
 
Join Date: 03-25-04
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Arrow Do you Validate Your Markup?

It's very important to do so. Do you make sure your pages validate?

You can find out if they do here, http://validator.w3.org/

Do you use a doctype? Which do you prefer? Why?

Ultimately I would like to be able to use XHTML Strict;

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

However, I don't always find it practical, like how it doesn't allow you to target links to a new window so for now I aim to use;

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

Hope there's some interest in this important topic.

Do you know why it's important?
 
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #2  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:38 AM
Johan007's Avatar
Johan007 Johan007 is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 10-15-03
Posts: 1,780
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Ideally you should not open in windows if you are following strict mark-up and accessibility standards. Even in HTML 4.01 strict this is not allowed. The reason is blind users cant see new windows open in their OS and allows mobile technology can be designed in a non “Windows” way.

I do try and validated my pages unfortunately due to lack of time I continue to run Future Movies is quirks mode and rendering bugs had been fixed with alternative style sheet! Not good but it gets the job done.... for now.

I validate all my sites and test on PC, MAC across many browsers.

Last edited by Johan007; 02-09-2006 at 02:41 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:42 AM
Kalina's Avatar
Kalina Kalina is offline
aka Colleen
 
Join Date: 03-25-04
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Johan, do you mean using target="_blank" ? I have many clients who like to link to others sites that way so there's sometimes no way around it as they don't want to have people leave their page. But that's a very good reason not to. For my own sites I don't mind them being directed to a new site.

This is my favorite topic, still learning however.
 
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-09-2006, 06:59 AM
Ferre's Avatar
Ferre Ferre is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-15-03
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,897
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I validate my sites in 'browser'.

And I refuse to put that 'doctype' line in my pages, and guess what? It does NOT effect traffic, or the visiblity of your site in any way.

As I have mentioned before, I fail to see why I should adverise for any third party in my code.

Also, be biggest sites on the internet do not validate, it's like Firefox, very much over-hyped by geek kids...but that's the majority on the internet.

 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-09-2006, 07:29 AM
FreeDomainForum FreeDomainForum is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 02-09-06
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I never validate either. I sometimes code via some very old html commands such as <u> so even my correct code might not get validated.
 
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-09-2006, 07:56 AM
Radnor Radnor is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 07-30-05
Posts: 246
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Also, be biggest sites on the internet do not validate, it's like Firefox, very much over-hyped by geek kids...but that's the majority on the internet.

I validate my sites. Bur I agree with Ferre too....

Just did Google 46 errors, MSN 2 errors, and Yahoo only 293 errors.....
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:34 AM
Kalina's Avatar
Kalina Kalina is offline
aka Colleen
 
Join Date: 03-25-04
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
A blind person using a reader on those would hear a lot of "noise". A website should accomodate as many people as possible.
See how much money the disabled spent online last year? It's a very important factor.

We validate for many reasons, including the disabled.

Some reading.
Why DOCTYPE is important:
Quote:
Using an incomplete, outdated or no DOCTYPE at all, throws
some browsers into “Quirks” mode, where the browser assumes
you’ve written old-fashioned, invalid markup.

This means that your web pages may not render well in all
the major browsers.

http://www.isitebuild.com/html-xhtml-validation.htm
Some reasons for validating your pages:
  • Cross Platform Compatibility
  • Accessibility
  • Future Growth

http://www.karlcore.com/articles/article.php?id=9

This is so important. If you don't believe me, you'll all have many many pages to update in the future, best to nip it in the bud now.

http://www.devwebpro.co.uk/devwebpro...alidation.html

The most important reason to me:
Quote:
Disabled People.

When you write valid code, it becomes much easier to view with things that aren't web browsers, such as screen readers. Technology for disabled people doesn't tend to be as forgiving as web browsers, so having valid code is important when it comes to working with these programs.

http://www.webinformationonline.com/...alidation.html
Ferre, it appears ok to most of us I agree, but we're not using certain devices, browsers, screen readers, etc where problems are caused by not validating your pages. It's nothing to do with the geek kids. It's very very important. Just have to read more into it, you'll be enlightened, I was.
 
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:53 AM
Ferre's Avatar
Ferre Ferre is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-15-03
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,897
iTrader: 0 / 0%
You would be surprized about how much I did read into it Colleen and believe me, the Major browsers, IE, FF, Opera and Netscape do not at all go in a quirk mode when there's no doctype available.

I do believe that websites should have 'clean' code and that all tags should be closed, etc. I also am a supporter of good web useability and W3 validation may be 'the ultimate' but they claim way too much importance for my likings and I refuse to put their ads in my code.

..but that's just me.
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-09-2006, 08:55 AM
Kalina's Avatar
Kalina Kalina is offline
aka Colleen
 
Join Date: 03-25-04
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I didn't realize it was an ad. You could be right that it's overemphasized. I've never tried viewing any sites I create on a PDA device but I've read DOCTYPES are important there.
 
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:04 AM
Ferre's Avatar
Ferre Ferre is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-15-03
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,897
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I use a PDA myself, and surf my own sites with it, no problems viewing it without the W3 ad. Mine uses mobile IE btw.
 
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:06 AM
Ferre's Avatar
Ferre Ferre is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-15-03
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,897
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Btw, they also go a little over the top with their validations, when you have a copyright code: &copy in your pages, this is the error that you will get from W3;

Quote:
If you meant to include an entity that starts with "&", then you should terminate it with ";". Another reason for this error message is that you inadvertently created an entity by failing to escape an "&" character just before this text.
Idiots.
 
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-09-2006, 09:09 AM
Kalina's Avatar
Kalina Kalina is offline
aka Colleen
 
Join Date: 03-25-04
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
That makes sense; &copy; but I am so used to the error messages from always validating pages.
 
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-10-2006, 10:19 AM
DaveyBoy's Avatar
DaveyBoy DaveyBoy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: England.
Posts: 3,885
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I try to do validate it just to show that i can but it doesn't effect anything at all, i wouldn't say it's 'very important to do so' at all.
 
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-10-2006, 10:22 AM
DaveyBoy's Avatar
DaveyBoy DaveyBoy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: England.
Posts: 3,885
iTrader: 0 / 0%
One thing i never understand is :

To do an & in valid code, you have to type &amp; - which is a bit silly isn't it

11 errors on your sig link btw, colleen j/k
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-10-2006, 10:39 AM
Kalina's Avatar
Kalina Kalina is offline
aka Colleen
 
Join Date: 03-25-04
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Yeah I don't ever get around to my own, but I do for clients. Mine has to be done asap. Glad it's only 11. I can make them go pop in 5. lol.

Stupid Wordpress caused many of those errors in the image tag for when I uploaded my image, I just expected their code to be valid. grrrr

Thankfully, none of the errors were in my skin, it was from the image link in my post and the code given for the tag-board, but it's fixed now. Thanks for letting me know, David.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...wilight.com%2F

Last edited by Kalina; 02-10-2006 at 10:50 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-10-2006, 11:08 AM
DaveyBoy's Avatar
DaveyBoy DaveyBoy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: England.
Posts: 3,885
iTrader: 0 / 0%
All better
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-11-2006, 09:08 AM
paranoidandroid's Avatar
paranoidandroid paranoidandroid is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 08-29-04
Location: Lancashire UK
Posts: 366
iTrader: 0 / 0%
My personal take on this is that if you are going down the full css route (no tables) then it makes sense to produce valid code, that's what I did for both the css sites I created. But for the table based sites I create it just seems pointless to produce valid code.
 
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-11-2006, 10:03 AM
kwvarga's Avatar
kwvarga kwvarga is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL or Atlanta
Posts: 2,522
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I remember I did an entire site once for validity and when went to validate check it.. the only errors i had was the stupid <img alt=""> stuff.. I was angry
 
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-12-2006, 07:58 AM
jonhenshaw's Avatar
jonhenshaw jonhenshaw is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 02-11-06
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 11
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
And I refuse to put that 'doctype' line in my pages, and guess what? It does NOT effect traffic, or the visiblity of your site in any way.
The DOCTYPE has nothing to do with site traffic or visibility (per se). It has everything to do with how your HTML and CSS is rendered. Changing the DOCTYPE can affect margins, padding and other elements on a web page. If you don't use a DOCTYPE, then the browser uses it's default DOCTYPE. Seasoned web designers know that the DOCTYPE is very important in order to ensure there design renders correctly on different browsers and browser versions.
 
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-12-2006, 08:34 AM
John Scott's Avatar
John Scott John Scott is offline
Individualist
 
Join Date: 09-27-03
Location: Wherever I want.
Posts: 28,046
iTrader: 4 / 100%
I definitely prefer valid code to invalid code. It may not put me out of business to have code that doesn't validate, but I think it presents a more professional image.

That said, please nobody run any of my sites through the validator thing.
 
Reply With Quote
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > Web Development > Web Design Lobby > Web Usability

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Markup Validation EWSitesCom SEO Forum 8 06-03-2007 02:49 AM
having same markup throughout site GeXus SEO Forum 2 01-28-2007 08:17 PM
2 errors to fix until I validate jdog Google Forum 2 12-07-2006 06:12 PM
validate css, validate xhtml Ricoool Coding Forum 7 10-16-2003 06:39 PM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:51 PM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2018 VIX-WomensForum LLC