What users hate most

[jeet]

Originally Posted by JuggoPop

fixed width allows you to make sure things are going to stay where you want them... fluid sites can look pretty jacked on a 25" widescreen with high resoultion. I just dragged your site across my two monitors and it flows ok, when really wide, but at some point you lose control of exactly what the end user will see (in a fluid design).

That's true! At some point either the content or anything else could really shrink small, I mean heightwise.

[waffles]

With my simple stuff, stretching out isn't a problem. Well, maybe if you go 3 or 4 monitors across. But do people actually do that?

Anyway, I hate when my browser gets hijacked because the guy set a browser size. Especially when he set it to be maximized and I already have it that way.

[tspike]

So... this is my first time here and I'm getting the distinct impression that this is less a usability forum and more an 'elitist webmaster and oh yeah usability too' forum. Keep in mind that part of usability includes the backend. It seems like spyder's attack on PHP is more an attack on CMS systems. I work on a website for a restaurant franchise company, and I originally designed the whole thing from scratch. I'm now in the process of completely re-designing the site to work with a CMS system (Joomla). Why? Because the non-technical customer I'm dealing with needs to be able to update the site without mucking with the HTML, CSS, and whatever else I throw in there. I could keep the site as it is and write a script to update it and upload to the FTP server without directly messing with the code, but why would I do that when an elegant solution like Joomla is available?

[waffles]

Where exactly are you pulling the "elitist" title from? And as far as using the site is concerned, I really don't care how they do it. Hijack my browser size? Doesn't matter if it's javascript or PHP or what, I still hate it.

I really don't understand your example either. Unless I'm forgetting something, no one ever mentioned using a CMS or other such script as being a bad thing. Granted, you do have a bunch of noobs who will do stupid things with those, but that has nothing to do with the script itself.

But on that grain of things... I hate when you have to design your site so that anyone, regardless of actual site making skills, can edit it. At school we almost have to do everything with Frontpage so anyone can come back later and change things without having to work through your code. I wanted to do a site for my building and it's hall government, but once I realised that I'd have to use Frontpage I just lost all interest in it. I don't like to dumb things down for people. If you're going to make a site, you need to have the skills. And you should be able to do it how you wish. It forces people to know what they're doing.

[digiweb]

Originally Posted by helloworld

I would use perl, but I perfer not to fall asleep at the keyboard

I've always said that about COBOL

[digiweb]

Originally Posted by tspike

So... this is my first time here and I'm getting the distinct impression that this is less a usability forum and more an 'elitist webmaster and oh yeah usability too' forum.

Elitist? Dem's fighten words!

Welcome tspike!

I would substitute "passionate" for elitist. Check my posts. The day I'm an elitest is the day you can pry my keyboard from my cold dead hands.

Or something dramatic like that.

[digiweb]

Originally Posted by vtechno42

Dang! *applauds with reckless abandon* that was just.... so beautiful... *sheds a single tear for effect* I really couldn't agree more.

Thanks! I agree with your agreeing!

but in tandom with that breed of webflotsam and netjetsom, it makes me want to scratch out my eyeballs and frappeé them into biopaste...

Ha! well put yourself there.

[digiweb]

Originally Posted by tspike

completely re-designing the site to work with a CMS system (Joomla). Why? Because the non-technical customer I'm dealing with needs to be able to update the site without mucking with the HTML, CSS, and whatever else I throw in there. I could keep the site as it is and write a script to update it and upload to the FTP server without directly messing with the code, but why would I do that when an elegant solution like Joomla is available?

rock on ... joomla's cool.

I hear drupal is awesome.

Microsoft cost $20k and when I said Go it wouldn't. Maybe it was me.

Nah.

[tspike]

Originally Posted by waffles

Where exactly are you pulling the "elitist" title from?

I'll grant you that I should have targeted my post more specifically to the person whose post rubbed me wrong (spyderscripts).

Originally Posted by spyderscripts

With the coming of PHP CMS, the uniqueness of web sites have dropped tremendously. Any Joe Smith can have a web site if they pay someone $10 to install a PHP CMS for them.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. The web has always been about information of one form or another, and in its present form, it's about accessing as much relevant information as easily and as quickly as possible. Every person in the country has some bit of knowledge that could be used by others. From an ideal perspective, the high-quality information will get linked to, and thus rank higher on search engines (Google in particular), and the less important information will sink to the bottom of rankings.

As to uniqueness, while I'll grant you that CMS sites tend to be less unique, the capacity is still there to be creative. Above that, however, consistency is listed as an important trait for usable interfaces in just about every UI or usability textbook. If websites have more or less the same layout, users will know where to look for the information they want.

Additionally, my impression is that CMS systems will gradually replace the crappy '10-minute' HTML sites that pervaded the early web, which to me is a good thing -- CMS sites almost ALWAYS look better than "Here is a table. Here is some information. Here is a link." Still, people who really want to be artistic will do what they've always done - design a site from scratch to look the way they want it to.

Originally Posted by waffles

And as far as using the site is concerned, I really don't care how they do it. Hijack my browser size? Doesn't matter if it's javascript or PHP or what, I still hate it.

I'm not really sure what part of my post you're addressing with that. The use of PHP and javascript doesn't mean hijacking your browser size.

Originally Posted by waffles

I really don't understand your example either. Unless I'm forgetting something, no one ever mentioned using a CMS or other such script as being a bad thing. Granted, you do have a bunch of noobs who will do stupid things with those, but that has nothing to do with the script itself.

spyderscripts definitely said CMS systems are a bad thing: "If it's a PHP CMS, I just believe the web site owner didn't care enough about us visitors to change the template or to learn how to design a site themselves."

This belief is patently false and I have a hard time believing it represents the opinion of the vast majority of site visitors.

Originally Posted by waffles

But on that grain of things... I hate when you have to design your site so that anyone, regardless of actual site making skills, can edit it. At school we almost have to do everything with Frontpage so anyone can come back later and change things without having to work through your code. I wanted to do a site for my building and it's hall government, but once I realised that I'd have to use Frontpage I just lost all interest in it. I don't like to dumb things down for people. If you're going to make a site, you need to have the skills. And you should be able to do it how you wish. It forces people to know what they're doing.

I'm not entailing that just anybody should be able to edit the site, but I don't think my customer should be forced to learn HTML and CSS and wade through a bunch of code just to change the hours a store is open, or to change the price of a menu item. Furthermore, I don't think he should have to pay me to do something as simple as that. By the way, I personally can't stand FrontPage and I don't think it even compares to Joomla. BUT -- that doesn't mean I'd knock FrontPage if it accomplishes the task someone's trying to go for in a more straightforward, intuitive way than the other options.

Keep in mind that there's a big difference between designing a site and updating its content. Even with a CMS system it's necessary to have a solid understanding of the basic set of web design skills to properly design a template.

[tspike]

Originally Posted by CarolineBogart

Elitist? Dem's fighten words!

Welcome tspike!

I would substitute "passionate" for elitist. Check my posts. The day I'm an elitest is the day you can pry my keyboard from my cold dead hands.

Or something dramatic like that.

Haha, thanks for the welcome, sorry to come in with guns blazing. See my new post for a clarification of that (unjustified) comment.

[LazyJim]

Welcome tspike!

spyderscripts does indeed seem to have issues with CMSs, which you've addressed pretty well.

Possibly where you got the 'elitist' impression was the talk on the lines of PHP 'not being a real programming language'... an issue I addressed earlier with the 'usability for programmers' argument which I think you almost suggested in your first post. And the same argument applies in support of CMSs (the task at hand is to create a web site not to type code) clearly we need tools, but, to summarise what you and have been saying, tools have usability or lack thereof just as much as web sites do.

I entered this forum with my guns blazing too, they soon set me straight though, this is a very friendly forum!

I think I've agreed with everything you've said in this thread, so I'm glad to have you here! Please could you respond to my thread? --> What does Usability mean to you?

[chicgeek]

I don't think I've EVER seen this disclaimer on a page before:



Ha!

[tspike]

Originally Posted by chicgeek

I don't think I've EVER seen this disclaimer on a page before:

Ha!

Haha, nice.

[AntNE00]

I hate the over use of design filters and when people use 4000 different color schemes in the site layout.. thats a no no

[waffles]

Originally Posted by tspike

I'm not really sure what part of my post you're addressing with that. The use of PHP and javascript doesn't mean hijacking your browser size.

It doesn't, but it can be done. And I hate it when it does happen.

Originally Posted by tspike

spyderscripts definitely said CMS systems are a bad thing: "If it's a PHP CMS, I just believe the web site owner didn't care enough about us visitors to change the template or to learn how to design a site themselves."

This belief is patently false and I have a hard time believing it represents the opinion of the vast majority of site visitors.

Me too. I want a site that looks good and isn't just like everything else. The only thing I don't like about CMS sites is when they stay with the default theme. That's fine if it's just your blog, but if you're making a site with it you need to do something with it.

Originally Posted by tspike

I'm not entailing that just anybody should be able to edit the site, but I don't think my customer should be forced to learn HTML and CSS and wade through a bunch of code just to change the hours a store is open, or to change the price of a menu item. Furthermore, I don't think he should have to pay me to do something as simple as that.

I am saying that. If you can't find where the store hours are to change them, then you need to find someone who can do it. Granted, whoever made the site should make them easy to find too.

Originally Posted by tspike

By the way, I personally can't stand FrontPage and I don't think it even compares to Joomla. BUT -- that doesn't mean I'd knock FrontPage if it accomplishes the task someone's trying to go for in a more straightforward, intuitive way than the other options.

That's not the part of Frontpage that I hate. It adds so much to the code it's not even funny. I just hate it. The only thing I like about it is the thumbnail option for pictures.

Originally Posted by tspike

Keep in mind that there's a big difference between designing a site and updating its content. Even with a CMS system it's necessary to have a solid understanding of the basic set of web design skills to properly design a template.

But if I'm using the default settings I'm not going to design a template.

It really all depends on what the site is for. I just set up Phorum for a school group. The e-mailing we were doing was just getting confusing. It's default theme, only change is a registration link if you're not logged in and the Phorum logo is changed. Does that make it bad? Not at all. We don't care if it looks good.

[dcole07]

Hey spyderscripts, I write my website in .corn... I mean grow my website, not make it but would you buy something on my site. I know corn can have some bugs sometimes but if you lay down some pestisides it's okay.

anyway, this forum is in php...

I guess alot of perl users see php as the Windows of web programming. Since it's the largest used and supported cgi language. (advanced web language..)

[gatorgritz]

Originally Posted by waffles

Splash pages. Why can't I just go to your site? Are you trying to anger me? I hate them more than music.

I agree.

[theChronic]

Another problem is site blindness. "We are now seeing right-column blindness, where users do not see information and links down the right hand side of the screen. This occurs because the right hand column has become known for advertising," Cunnington said.

I had thought about this before and tried out a design where the navigation is on the right hand side and there is two columns. left column is nav, right column is ads and a few buttons like contact us. Not enough traffic to thoroughly test it but I think it was an alright idea.

Makes me think twice tho about the 800x600 viewers as was brought up earlier with them having to scroll to the left - might want to change some things up now.

[explicitzone.com]

Originally Posted by waffles

Well, maybe if you go 3 or 4 monitors across. But do people actually do that?

I wouldn't think so. LOL